Delos vs. Bolt

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southdakota
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby southdakota » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:44 am

I totally agree. I'm open to options. But, I just think the Floyd should remain one of those options.
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby ghostryder » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:47 am

Absolutely. not to dismiss the Vaders and all the headless stuff -- it's just not at it's core any different than any generational craze that'll come and go. The classics remain as the core backbone. They drive Fender, Gibson and the knock-offs like Suhr or PRS. And whatever model is this core should have as many options as possible. The rest do. Heck try to find an Ibanez without a Floyd type trem. Or a Schector. It's not my thing but I'm not blind to the fact they are still popular.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:36 pm

The Hipshot Contour IS a Floyd type trem, packaged like a vintage US Std. It may not weigh a ton, take forever to restring and lock down, or have iffy quality control like a genuine Floyd Rose, but it performs like one.

Also, have you tried a headless guitar yet? Give one a shot and you might realize that they're not "a generational craze that'll come and go", but rather a really portable, really playable, really light-weight, and really comfortable full-scale instrument. As a form factor, they're kind of the guitar version of the laptop.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:54 pm

To me, it's not a Floyd-like trem unless it's locking. The non-headless definitely isn't, and the headless is...sort of. I could see arguments both ways. :think: But then again, I hate trems, and Floyds were why, so don't listen to me. :lol:

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm

Yeah, I put the locking part of the equation squarely into the “downside” category... Floyds are just way too finnicky. They’re why I’m no longer a trem guy as well. When they work properly, they’re great, but the rest of the time, it’s a non-stop adjustment battle to balance strings against springs. Setting intonation and shimming to the correct radius sucks as well.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Omsong » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Plus... the weight difference between a trem and fixed bridge Zeus (for example) surprised me. When you're talking about a 6lb guitar, a pound makes a big difference.

Regarding old vs. new, even Leo worked on improvements to his original Strat design up until his passing.
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby ghostryder » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:02 am

Koshchei wrote:The Hipshot Contour IS a Floyd type trem, packaged like a vintage US Std. It may not weigh a ton, take forever to restring and lock down, or have iffy quality control like a genuine Floyd Rose, but it performs like one.

Also, have you tried a headless guitar yet? Give one a shot and you might realize that they're not "a generational craze that'll come and go", but rather a really portable, really playable, really light-weight, and really comfortable full-scale instrument. As a form factor, they're kind of the guitar version of the laptop.


It's not just the "headless" part but the body shapes. To be classic and to last generation to generation the guitar should not project what type of music is to come out of it. This is what makes strats and les pauls timeless. I just do not see that in a Vader or Osiris. They are immediately time stamped as the EVH striped series. Not to dismiss the light weight and compact plus's-but i think the body shapes will have to change to stay current with the times.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:52 am

I agree with you there... the Zeus looks like a step in the right direction, at least to my eyes (and clearly Tim Miller’s). I have no idea if it translates into ergonomic parity with the Vader (which is supremely easy to play), but the lower horn seems to be far enough out of the way to not need a bevel.

Somebody will just need to send me one for ...ahem... “testing”.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby southdakota » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:00 am

Koshchei wrote:Yeah, I put the locking part of the equation squarely into the “downside” category... Floyds are just way too finnicky. They’re why I’m no longer a trem guy as well. When they work properly, they’re great, but the rest of the time, it’s a non-stop adjustment battle to balance strings against springs. Setting intonation and shimming to the correct radius sucks as well.


My first Floyd guitar was my Carvin SC90. It's about 4 years old. From the day I had it until now, it holds pitch even with the deepest of dive bombs. There is a whole generation of guys like me that love Floyds. All I'm saying is keep it as an option in a guitar (Delos) that so many of us associate with a Floyd. It's like LP not offering a tune-o-matic bridge.

I am not familiar at all with the new trems. Do they have locking versions that hold up to heavy use?

As for headless, I just can't bring myself to do it. It's purely an aesthetic thing. I am happy that Kiesel jumped head first into that market as there are not a lot of other brands making them. It was a great business move for Jeff. Just not for me. I'm a big guy. A vader on me would look like a toy! But, never say never......
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:29 am

All signs point to “yes” re holding up. The Hipshot Contour has been around since around 2008, to pretty much universal acclaim. With a straight string pull, graphtech nut, locking tuners, and properly machined string contact points, a locking setup should be totally unnecessary. Guitars have come a long way in the last 10 years.

Yeah, a headless guitar can look a bit like a ukelele on a larger person, but it ultimately comes down to your personal priorities as to whether or not you should take the plunge. Anecdotal: My only priority is a guitar that makes it as easy as possible to play really complex stuff, so how I look on stage isn’t really a factor. If I was in a cover or tribute band, my priorities would be completely different though. I will say that a headless does make learning repertoire super easy, which you can then translate to a more image-appropriate instrument.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby amon » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:01 pm

Omsong wrote:Plus... the weight difference between a trem and fixed bridge Zeus (for example) surprised me

Which one's heavier?

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:15 pm

The fixed bridge weighs 165g (about 1/3 lb).

If I had to guess, I'd probably say the trem's block probably out-weighs the whole fixed bridge.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Omsong » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:25 pm

spudmunkey wrote:The fixed bridge weighs 165g (about 1/3 lb).

If I had to guess, I'd probably say the trem's block probably out-weighs the whole fixed bridge.


By quite a bit, actually.
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby dejabluguitar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:30 pm

Official. No side jack option. Of course subject to change.
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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:45 pm

In my mind, I'd only want it if the guitar could be had with a BBE body...but otherwise, my brain just isn't used to seeing a missing "front" jack on traditional strat-looking bodies:

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby ghostryder » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:03 pm

I agree. Without BBE it just doesn't have the desired look. Maybe a new model down the road via a signature or whatnot will have these options in mind. I remember the walkthrough vid when they moved to the new factory, if memory serves me it was gearGods exclusive vid-- yep found it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Pv21j7iMg

In the vid Jeff mentioned he has a full time programmer instead of hiring out a company--so we can expect Jeff will constantly be churning out new things to keep the guy busy- not to mention the many new artists that are likely to sign this year--we can expect new models on a regular basis.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:14 am

This ^. Jeff subsidizes programming costs where he can by passing them along to the requesting customer if it's oddball, but given sufficient demand, he'll get it done. Remember the extremely brief period when the Vader was only going to be on a 27" scale?

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby X1Glider » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:31 am

spudmunkey wrote:To me, it's not a Floyd-like trem unless it's locking. The non-headless definitely isn't, and the headless is...sort of. I could see arguments both ways. :think: But then again, I hate trems, and Floyds were why, so don't listen to me. :lol:

My first Floyd in the early 80s was non-locking and no fine tuners. On a Kramer with a slippery nut. It stayed in tune much better than all fulcrum type current offerings, even without locking tuners. There's a technique for stringing on the post that prevents slipping and unwinding. Now, the locking tuners and a graphite nut negate the need for a locking nut, and it works just fine.

Floyds were still new at the time and out there in much smaller quantities and I'm willing to bet that part of the reason was because they weren't pinching pennies at the time. They needed to do it right to gain traction in the marketplace. It seems to me that the knife edges were better and the materials were processed better. There's millions out there now and the new knife edges and posts are crap by comparison.

My two 7 string guitars with Floyds don't stay in tune worth a flip (real Floyds). The posts and knife edges don't last. There's visible wear and the profiling where everything mates together shows, during use, that the knife edge does not pivot in one place in the groove, it migrates up and down in the groove. As such, the knife edge likely doesn't return to zero for that reason.

Now, I no longer play those guitars. But I have a plan to fill in all those cavities and rout for a Kahler and repaint. And that's a shame, because 1 of them has a stunning deep triple step 5A quilt. But so what, if I won't play it? I've learned to hate fulcrum trems over the decades on won't ever buy one again.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby X1Glider » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:39 am

Koshchei wrote:Yeah, I put the locking part of the equation squarely into the “downside” category... Floyds are just way too finnicky. They’re why I’m no longer a trem guy as well. When they work properly, they’re great, but the rest of the time, it’s a non-stop adjustment battle to balance strings against springs. Setting intonation and shimming to the correct radius sucks as well.

Agreed. The biggest downside to a Floyd and its ilk is it's inability to account for different radii without shimming. Same with the locknuts having limited radii. And you're stuck with their string spacing.

I like to cut my own nuts and saddles. I like it as wide as I can go at the nut and narrower at the bridge, so my saddle grooves are not dead center like normal.

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Re: Delos vs. Bolt

Postby Koshchei » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:35 am

X1Glider wrote:
Koshchei wrote:Yeah, I put the locking part of the equation squarely into the “downside” category... Floyds are just way too finnicky. They’re why I’m no longer a trem guy as well. When they work properly, they’re great, but the rest of the time, it’s a non-stop adjustment battle to balance strings against springs. Setting intonation and shimming to the correct radius sucks as well.

Agreed. The biggest downside to a Floyd and its ilk is it's inability to account for different radii without shimming. Same with the locknuts having limited radii. And you're stuck with their string spacing.

I like to cut my own nuts and saddles. I like it as wide as I can go at the nut and narrower at the bridge, so my saddle grooves are not dead center like normal.


Agreed on all points. The last time I used a Floyd was as a fast n’ easy attention-getter in X-Mann’s 2014 Carvin X-mas Jam compilation. I haven’t needed one since.


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