Why are these forums so dead?

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Nombrecomun
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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Nombrecomun » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:19 pm

spudmunkey wrote:
Yeah, it sucks because both Reddit and Facebook are awful when it comes to archiving information.

Even forums that still seem pretty busy, for the most part, are still way way way down on daily posts compared to even just a couple years ago.


It was a terrible loss when the Carvin Amp BBS went away. There was soooo much information archived there about how to take care of the amps, get different tones, mods, etc... Now, it's all gone.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby customaxe » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:20 pm

Quivering Wrist wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:This place has been *heavily* moderated for as long as I've been here. I understand that there was a pre-me era where the Carvin BBS was more wild-and-crazy, even to the point where shutting it down completely was considered, as what was going on didnt jive with a company that printed a bible verse in their catalogs. :laughhard:


I'm a Christian so I don't have a problem if they printed the whole bible in the thing.


Yes, but not all of us are Christians or religious and most people don't want to be subjected to bible verses when they're shopping for guitars. A custom guitar company isn't a church.

As to why these forums are so "dead", the fact is most of Kiesel's audience is a younger crowd these days by a wide margin and they don't tend to congregate as much on forums as they do on FB, Instagram, etc. Every Kiesel Facebook post gets seen by over 1.2 million people, and this entire forum as a whole has less than 15,000 members.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby mikeyK » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:48 pm

I for one rediscovered the forums. I'm done with Facebook for good. Paging through some of the older posts on the forum I have found a wealth of information that was rarely seen on the Facebook group. Sure there is a lot more activity on social media and you can get a response to your question within minutes. Only problem is that the response may not be very informative or the useful responses are buried 300 posts deep among random banter.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby helldorado » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:50 pm

on the bright side, the forum doesn't have a daily post or five asking me to support Taj Farrant and become a fan. :roll: :lol:

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby canon_mutant » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:42 pm

So, you're basically saying I'm old then . . .

:think:

Yeah, hard to argue with that! I crap canned FB and Tweeter in 2015. So, call me "old" school? :roll:

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby customaxe » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:06 pm

helldorado wrote:on the bright side, the forum doesn't have a daily post or five asking me to support Taj Farrant and become a fan. :roll: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: and why are all of those posts made by middle-aged (or older) ladies? Weird as can be...

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby HarlowTheFish » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:27 am

customaxe wrote:
helldorado wrote:on the bright side, the forum doesn't have a daily post or five asking me to support Taj Farrant and become a fan. :roll: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: and why are all of those posts made by middle-aged (or older) ladies? Weird as can be...

Mom's gotta show her kid some love, right :mrgreen:

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:14 am

Hey you guuuuuys!

I can say that theforum and my normal browser do not get along, so that's partly the reason I've been away. Also, yes, things slowed down
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby helldorado » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:03 pm

HarlowTheFish wrote:
customaxe wrote:
helldorado wrote:on the bright side, the forum doesn't have a daily post or five asking me to support Taj Farrant and become a fan. :roll: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: and why are all of those posts made by middle-aged (or older) ladies? Weird as can be...

Mom's gotta show her kid some love, right :mrgreen:


It's a little weird, and the links all ask for money. I'm like, he's got parents right? :lol:


UnexplodedCow wrote:Hey you guuuuuys!

I can say that theforum and my normal browser do not get along, so that's partly the reason I've been away. Also, yes, things slowed down


You need to clear all cookies and cache in your browser. There was an admin job task that was done on the site, so if you're having the issue where you log in, then get logged back out when clicking on a forum or post, that will fix the issue.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:33 am

helldorado wrote:
You need to clear all cookies and cache in your browser. There was an admin job task that was done on the site, so if you're having the issue where you log in, then get logged back out when clicking on a forum or post, that will fix the issue.


Negative on that. I'm not using a standard browser (consider it a highly tweaked type based on Chrome). That's first on my list whenever I encounter website issues; no dice in this situation. I have the same problem on another forum; it's a compatibility issue with the browser.

So, now I just run a sandboxed version of a popular browser, allowing me to type the response. All good here :)
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

helldorado
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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby helldorado » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:50 pm

UnexplodedCow wrote:
helldorado wrote:
You need to clear all cookies and cache in your browser. There was an admin job task that was done on the site, so if you're having the issue where you log in, then get logged back out when clicking on a forum or post, that will fix the issue.


Negative on that. I'm not using a standard browser (consider it a highly tweaked type based on Chrome). That's first on my list whenever I encounter website issues; no dice in this situation. I have the same problem on another forum; it's a compatibility issue with the browser.

So, now I just run a sandboxed version of a popular browser, allowing me to type the response. All good here :)


oooooooh :shock: gotcha

Image

8)

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:16 pm

With all that said about trends changing, how people use social media, the technological challenges, etc...it would be disingenuous to say that Jeff's very public rant/break-down probably also turned some folks off. it seemed to have less of an effect on their followers on social media, but it likely left a more-sour taste in the mouths of the traditionally more "mature" demographic that would frequent a dedicated BBS/forum rather than instagram, Snapchat, etc. AKA people that even know what a "BBS" is.

Not looking to talk about it any further, and this wouldn't be the venue for further conversation, but brought it up simply a data point in the collection of data points re: forum traffic.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Quivering Wrist » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:00 am

Everybody used to use forums back from late 90's up to some point before Twitter and Facebook style things. Maybe the problem with forums is people can bump something to the top on their own and take the spotlight at will.

The rant thing... I chalk it up to being young and got a little full of pride for a moment. It can happen when you're young and not aware its happening. But I'm not sure it affected here as its always been sluggish here.

We probably just need more players posting videos here. Or forums are going away forever in the next 5 or 10 years.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby helldorado » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:18 am

Quivering Wrist wrote:Everybody used to use forums back from late 90's up to some point before Twitter and Facebook style things. Maybe the problem with forums is people can bump something to the top on their own and take the spotlight at will.


I dunno, Facebook also will do "recent activity" as a way to sort posts and responses in groups, so it's kind of the same thing. I think forums fundamentally encourage people to actively look for specific topics and that only attracts a certain type of person. Whereas Facebook is much lazier and encourages passive engagement with likes. Forums you have to say something. But I think the big change is how many people are looking purely for likes and followers on sites like youtube and instagram so they can become "influencers" and get money off ads or free stuff from companies. Facebook we see a lot of posting of the "look at me" types of people who just want likes, or to show off their stuff and feel popular, or want are trying to build up their followers.

I mean, we have one guy who basically reposts the Kiesel FB and IG photos as "Kiesels of Instagram," others who post ridiculously overdone reviews and videos of their own guitars, tons of guys doing instrumental covers or just riffing, all asking for the follows, all on the Kiesel page, competing with the actual Kiesel artists for air. I think that's the main difference between a forum and facebook.

Quivering Wrist wrote:The rant thing... I chalk it up to being young and got a little full of pride for a moment. It can happen when you're young and not aware its happening. But I'm not sure it affected here as its always been sluggish here.


Jeff is roughly the same age I am. I wouldn't call ourselves "young." We're grown men and if by the time you're in your 40's, you don't understand how your actions and words can interpreted, that's unfortunate. I think what we saw was closer to a stress induced breakdown. It's a difficult time for everybody, especially those who feel responsible for their employees and want to do right by them. And I think Jeff made the mistake of putting himself out there too much, and let the toxicity of social media get to him. The fanboys and the haters are both equally toxic IMO because if you take what they say to heart, it knocks you out of line with reality. So not only do you start trying to do more than you should and constantly try to live up to people's expectations, then every misstep and mistake is blown completely out of proportion and turns into massive personal attacks.

I think since he's taken on a bigger role at Kiesel, and one of increased visibility, he wasn't fully prepared for everything that would come with it. He talks about anxiety and if they reduce the number of live feeds and walk-throughs he does, it'll be good for him. He should find somebody to be a good spokesman for the company on the social media side with the videos and other activities, and focus on where he's most comfortable with guitar design and the finishes. He can still drive the messaging and craft company's image without having to be the spokesman too.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby DannyB819 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:38 am

helldorado wrote:Jeff is roughly the same age I am. I wouldn't call ourselves "young." We're grown men and if by the time you're in your 40's, you don't understand how your actions and words can interpreted, that's unfortunate. I think what we saw was closer to a stress induced breakdown. It's a difficult time for everybody, especially those who feel responsible for their employees and want to do right by them. And I think Jeff made the mistake of putting himself out there too much, and let the toxicity of social media get to him. The fanboys and the haters are both equally toxic IMO because if you take what they say to heart, it knocks you out of line with reality. So not only do you start trying to do more than you should and constantly try to live up to people's expectations, then every misstep and mistake is blown completely out of proportion and turns into massive personal attacks.

I think since he's taken on a bigger role at Kiesel, and one of increased visibility, he wasn't fully prepared for everything that would come with it. He talks about anxiety and if they reduce the number of live feeds and walk-throughs he does, it'll be good for him. He should find somebody to be a good spokesman for the company on the social media side with the videos and other activities, and focus on where he's most comfortable with guitar design and the finishes. He can still drive the messaging and craft company's image without having to be the spokesman too.


Also roughly the same age as I am and I've understood the principle of how actions and words can be interpreted since I was a teenage class president.

I don't think Jeff will ever give up the spotlight. He loves it too much and he loves himself too much to step aside from public view. I'm no mental health professional, but it's pretty easy to see that he's a textbook narcissist. From the photos of himself in the showroom, the photos of himself in the NAMM booths, proudly boasting numerous times that he's "fired customers", the constant need for attention through the livestreams, naming techniques and colors after himself, it doesn't take a PhD in psychology to understand that the dude loves himself to a degree beyond what's normal.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Nombrecomun » Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:52 am

customaxe wrote:
As to why these forums are so "dead", the fact is most of Kiesel's audience is a younger crowd these days by a wide margin and they don't tend to congregate as much on forums as they do on FB, Instagram, etc. Every Kiesel Facebook post gets seen by over 1.2 million people, and this entire forum as a whole has less than 15,000 members.


And of those 15,000 how many are actively participating? A small fraction for sure.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Sunset » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:33 pm

I think some of us have forgotten that good music is the ultimate aim here, and that an instrument(even one with its own multiple platform media presence) is just that. An instrument. A tool we use to achieve our goals...

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:52 pm

helldorado wrote:oooooooh :shock: gotcha

Image

8)


My day job for the past decade has been IT (computers), among a bunch of other geek hobbies. You bet I'm a nerd :mrgreen:
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Nombrecomun » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:43 am

helldorado wrote:
Forums you have to say something. But I think the big change is how many people are looking purely for likes and followers on sites like youtube and instagram so they can become "influencers" and get money off ads or free stuff from companies. Facebook we see a lot of posting of the "look at me" types of people who just want likes, or to show off their stuff and feel popular, or want are trying to build up their followers.

I mean, we have one guy who basically reposts the Kiesel FB and IG photos as "Kiesels of Instagram," others who post ridiculously overdone reviews and videos of their own guitars, tons of guys doing instrumental covers or just riffing, all asking for the follows, all on the Kiesel page, competing with the actual Kiesel artists for air. I think that's the main difference between a forum and facebook.



Agreed. It's very much a self-centered, navel-gazing, self-promotional atmosphere, and very superficial. But...that is what it is: social media. It's really a lot of "me, me, me". And if they even had interesting content then ok. Cool. But it isn't. Just filling up bandwith. And I have to say, I've put up some videos as well on the Kiesel page.

Many of these folks are approaching this as a career/job. On the one hand I see this as very annoying but the other perspective is that it's cool that now everyone can have a shot at some type of fame and popularity.

It would be great if people understood that social media is for attention and BBS is for information. That way we could maybe see more robust participation on forums like this one.

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Re: Why are these forums so dead?

Postby Koshchei » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:20 pm

As everyone has said, social media and bite-sized anonymous commentary has largely replaced communities like forums. I still check in here from time to time, but don't have anything super productive to say about new Kiesel instruments (my last Kiesel was a 2017 VM8, which is absolutely perfect), other than that they look amazing and that Jeff and Co seems to be killing it!

Remember the good old days of X-Mann's jams? Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWDxu-_ECY

Great times!

edit: Danny - totally uncalled for. Accusing Jeff of having a mental illness because you don't like his approach to marketing is totally out of line. I get that you're still on a crusade because Jeff discontinued the Contour 66, Bolt+ or whatever it was years and years ago, but enough already.


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