24 3/4 inch scale

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amon
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby amon » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:07 pm

Darth Weller wrote:Be cool if Kiesel offered 24 3/4'', 25'', 25 1/4'' and 25.5" scale options for all their 6 strings


:roll:

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:32 am

Darth Weller wrote:Be cool if Kiesel offered 24 3/4'', 25'', 25 1/4'' and 25.5" scale options for all their 6 strings, non headless, non fan fret guitars.
But what i don't see is why you don't have the Gambale and the CT's in 24 3/4" option?

But hey, maybe one day?


I really don't feel much of a difference between 24.75 and 25 inch scale lengths. There might be something there, but it's apples to pretzels since my 24.75" guitar is a Guild S-60D and my Carvins are 25" with vibratos on 'em. The only similarities is that they have six strings. Construction is completely different.

I'd love to see short scale guitars, with a 22.5" or 24" scale. Those would be, and are, fun to play. We can already get baritone guitars, so that's the other end of the spectrum covered.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby ioneater » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:05 am

I've got two X220's, one is an original issue with the 24.75 scale, the other is a late model 25". The thing I notice immediately between the two of them is the neck width. String spacing s different too, but that is also influenced by the different bridges (old X is a Carvin Floyd, new one is Hipshot hardtail). It takes me several minutes to adjust to the narrower neck, chording is easier and I can wrap my thumb over the top to cheat more than on the modern wider necks.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Gypsycat619 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:58 pm

I have the first Zeus Kiesel made in Gibson scale. I know this as a fact because when I asked for it they told me it did not come in Gibson scale and I asked them to make an exception. They got back to me and told me I would have to pay an upcharge for the computer programming which I did. It also has a whammy bar. It plays like a Dream! I imagine after I paid for the coding they had the template and now it is available. You can view it in this video or in the promo shot for the video.


https://youtu.be/R2UvdEif7X8

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby mbardu » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:13 pm

Gypsycat619 wrote:I have the first Zeus Kiesel made in Gibson scale. I know this as a fact because when I asked for it they told me it did not come in Gibson scale and I asked them to make an exception. They got back to me and told me I would have to pay an upcharge for the computer programming which I did. It also has a whammy bar. It plays like a Dream! I imagine after I paid for the coding they had the template and now it is available. You can view it in this video or in the promo shot for the video.


https://youtu.be/R2UvdEif7X8


Thank you for your sacrifice in paying that first-time fee, some of us are thankful to have that option :)

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby MrSparkle » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:52 pm

So does the 24.75 Zeus get into LP territory? I know body mass factors into tone/sustain (never heard a feather-light guitar that sounds like a heavy Artist, SG2000, LP, etc.), but just curious if "it's the way to go" for a jazz/fusion-minded player (ie I'll take Carlton's 335 over his Tele, Scofield over Stern, etc.)?

I dig my Vader but I wonder about a short-scale Zeus or Leia. I tune standard, play both clean and drive (jazz, fusion, pop, whatever), and it can be hard to dial out the treble/sizzle of the Vader (great to have when high-gain ala Holdsworth though, and compressed cleans).

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby VoxNihili » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:44 pm

MrSparkle wrote:So does the 24.75 Zeus get into LP territory? I know body mass factors into tone/sustain (never heard a feather-light guitar that sounds like a heavy Artist, SG2000, LP, etc.), but just curious if "it's the way to go" for a jazz/fusion-minded player (ie I'll take Carlton's 335 over his Tele, Scofield over Stern, etc.)?

I dig my Vader but I wonder about a short-scale Zeus or Leia. I tune standard, play both clean and drive (jazz, fusion, pop, whatever), and it can be hard to dial out the treble/sizzle of the Vader (great to have when high-gain ala Holdsworth though, and compressed cleans).


I just received my Leia today...I opted for the 24.75 scale. The body is alder and it has a 5ps maple/pplhrt neck,
but it's pretty hefty for its size, probably around 6-1/2lbs. Beryllium pickups
aren't what I'd call 'vintage' voiced, but lower output modern w/ coil split for single coil. It's a lot more LP sounding
than my other Kiesels (an HH2 w/ Holdsworths, and a Zeus w/ Lithiums). You'd probably consider a 24.75 Leia w/
a mahogany body and maple cap if you want the LP feel...maybe a different neck wood/construction. And maybe consider the Holdsworth pickups, as they have a seemingly more 'vintagey' PAF sort of sound. Talk to the folks at Kiesel, they'll help spec what you're wanting.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Naphale7e » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 am

Is it just me but just looking at the 24.75 scale models for the headless, they seem to only "shrink" the neck but they don't adjust the pickups placement on the body :? ? I was interested in a shorter scale Zeus but that seems kinda odd and a half-bake option to be honest. Because if they would offer a true 24.75 option, they would have to resize everything on the body to compensate. If you look at Anderson's "shorty" models, they have smaller body and the pickups are closer from each other and from the bridge.

Do you guys think that would make a huge difference or it's just me splitting hairs ? Would it make the guitar sound darker or muddier :think: ?

These photo are from the In-stock section. The Autumn finish one supposedly have the 24.75 scale option and the natural one has the standard 25.5 scale. Maybe it's just me but you can see that both seems to have the same placement for the pickups and the bridge.
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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby HarlowTheFish » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:49 am

I think part of it is just an optical illusion from the color -- the edges of the autumn one kinda blend into the background. To my eye they're definitely a bit closer.

The other consideration is that it's not a huge difference -- there's 0.75" of difference total between the nut and saddles, so the pickups are only gonna be pulled together by a fraction of that. Just looking at a picture of a guitar that's already kinda small won't give you the whole picture.

Will it make a tone difference? Sure. I hang out on the OffsetGuitars forum too and one of the big things to get the Jazzmaster sound is to put the pickups in the right place relative to the scale length (closer to the bridge than a Strat). Even if you don't have JM pickups, any single-coil will get way closer to the JM sound if you do that.

Is it really gonna matter? Eh, not really, the unwashed masses in the audience only know what a Marshall is because the gold & black color scheme looks sweet.

Should you care? Maybe, but if you do the thing to be aware of is that the difference is gonna be tiny -- even on a JM, you're talking a good half-inch for a pretty small difference in tone.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby helldorado » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:51 pm

well, IMO the most logical way to built a shorter scale guitar is to keep the neck joint as its currently positioned, and move the bridge closer to the nut. If you keep everything else the same, only the bridge and bridge pickup should move in while the overall neck length becomes just a hair shorter.

Looking at those two photos, the tuners on the 25.5" scale Leia reach the bottom of the body. On the 24.75" scale one, they do not. So it does look like they moved the bridge closer, while keeping the neck joint and pickup in the same position. It also looks like they kept the bridge pickup spacing from the bridge consistent because the knobs didn't move. So on the 25.5" model, the top edge of the bridge pickup is more inline with the volume knob. On the 24.75" model, it's definitely sitting above it.

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby Naphale7e » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:24 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:I think part of it is just an optical illusion from the color -- the edges of the autumn one kinda blend into the background. To my eye they're definitely a bit closer.

The other consideration is that it's not a huge difference -- there's 0.75" of difference total between the nut and saddles, so the pickups are only gonna be pulled together by a fraction of that. Just looking at a picture of a guitar that's already kinda small won't give you the whole picture.

Will it make a tone difference? Sure. I hang out on the OffsetGuitars forum too and one of the big things to get the Jazzmaster sound is to put the pickups in the right place relative to the scale length (closer to the bridge than a Strat). Even if you don't have JM pickups, any single-coil will get way closer to the JM sound if you do that.

Is it really gonna matter? Eh, not really, the unwashed masses in the audience only know what a Marshall is because the gold & black color scheme looks sweet.

Should you care? Maybe, but if you do the thing to be aware of is that the difference is gonna be tiny -- even on a JM, you're talking a good half-inch for a pretty small difference in tone.


Thanks for the response :P ! Yeah your right, i'm definitely splitting hair and as helldorado said, you can see that some of the parts are slightly moving. As you said, 0.75 inch is not much so they probably just applied it and the changes are not drastic. The magic of internet pictures tricking your eyes :wink: Subconsciously, I think that i'm used to see a lot of 24.75 guitar have their pickups "cramed up" like Charvel fusions or Kramer proaxes but it's probably the way they were designed. I'm not a tone purist by any mean haha but I do prefer guitar that are brighter and that have a snappier attack so I was just worried it could add up to it. But yeah probably not :P

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Re: 24 3/4 inch scale

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:45 pm

helldorado wrote:well, IMO the most logical way to built a shorter scale guitar is to keep the neck joint as its currently positioned, and move the bridge closer to the nut.


That's also a way how you change the number of frets. Just put the new highest fret in the same spot as the original highest fret, and shift the bridge as necessary. That's how the CT624 and CS324/CS624 were designed (the 22-fret CT and CS came first).


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