A Pickup Description Post!

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A-Ro
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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby A-Ro » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:29 am

I really wish this initial post could be updated to include the lithium and beryllium pickups.

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby locorogue » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:17 am

dc400dragonburst wrote:
Dometalican wrote:
dc400dragonburst wrote:this thread got me to order an m22sd and m22n


just ordered a set of M22SD & M22N from Kiesel, on sale right now for $50(SD) & $45(N), combined shipping = $105!

I have two custom headless guitars, both are basswood bodies, and maple necks. Both have TBH60's at the necks, one has the C22B at bridge and the other has an M22SD. I've been a long time C22B bridge guy, until i installed the M22SD in my second matching headless, while i love the C22B, to my ears the M22SD smokes the C22B. The low end is obvious, and i prefer it that way, it's easier to eq low freq pup than it is to dial up th elow end(saves the fart, etc, to me of course). i just prefer the fullness of the M22SD, i play too many styles, and this pup does it all. I echo all the positives per this pup, and would say it's my favorite pup ever so far.

Note: the black headless i scalloped(more pics if interested), i also made the 1/8" aluminum pickguards, stained the bodies.

COOL: while further reading through this thread it's said J Becker used the M22SD/M22N exclusively... :woot:

As i'm relatively new to the SD's, i can't wait to try the SD & M22N together. :stir:

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Last edited by locorogue on Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:45 am

A-Ro wrote:I really wish this initial post could be updated to include the lithium and beryllium pickups.


The lithiums are there. Scroll down to near the end of the post to "The Kiesel pickups"

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:19 am

locorogue wrote:
COOL: while further reading through this thread it's said J Becker used the M22SD/M22N exclusively... :woot:

As i'm relatively new to the SD's, i can't wait to try the SD & M22N together. :stir:

Image


The 22SD indeed has a pulverizing low end. Been using it for 33 years! It's fantastic for classic rock and anything and everything heavier.

As far as Becker using the M22N, that was the natural match for whatever was selected on the bridge at that time. By the time another Carvin-made neck pup option was available (the M22V which didn't come around until 1992), Jason wasn't playing guitar in public any longer.

Back then it wasn't even called the "N" by guitarists or even the catalog.. it was just the M22 pickup. And it's big jazzy low end, big output and excellent splitting made it a super great match for the 22SD. 8)
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby locorogue » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:11 am

Doctor Turn wrote:M22 pickup. And it's big jazzy low end, big output and excellent splitting made it a super great match for the 22SD. 8)


have you tried the M22V? if so, how would you compare to the N? thanks for your time.

I'm putting together two guitars, same bodies and necks, one is going to have an M22T @ bridge, the other is going to have the newer M22SD. For neck pups I was thinking of putting a C22N in one, and a/b the other guitar with the M22N & V. or would it be best to just put the 22V in one, and the 22N in the other, forget the C22N? I know to each his own, but opinions are what. we're here for right? lol

Thanks

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:20 am

locorogue wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:M22 pickup. And it's big jazzy low end, big output and excellent splitting made it a super great match for the 22SD. 8)


have you tried the M22V? if so, how would you compare to the N? thanks for your time.

I'm putting together two guitars, same bodies and necks, one is going to have an M22T @ bridge, the other is going to have the newer M22SD. For neck pups I was thinking of putting a C22N in one, and a/b the other guitar with the M22N & V. or would it be best to just put the 22V in one, and the 22N in the other, forget the C22N? I know to each his own, but opinions are what. we're here for right? lol

Thanks


I've used both, in the same, as well as different guitars.

I'd call the N somewhat dark, but not too dark. Roll the tone back, and it'll do a great jazz style. Keep the tone all the way up (assuming 500k pots and .023 cap) and it'll do a straightforward neck humbucker, like a typical PAF style, but with more harmonic content. Splitting is where this pickup dusts so many others. It gets such an even single-coil sound that it's hard for me to even use as a humbucker.

The V is milder, brighter, splits almost as well. It has even more harmonic content, and almost a sound of "air" to it. Very, very sweet. All around, I prefer it to the N, but it's so close. The C22N, while similar, has a little different EQing, with slightly more treble and less bass. It doesn't split as well, or have quite the same output. Good pickup, but the M22 V or N are great pickups. Either pair nicely with the SD.

The M22T is its own thing, and I found it to work very well in the active models. It's not overly bright or dark, it has reasonably high output (not SD level, but plenty good). Harmonic content is a bit lower, and pinch harmonics aren't as easy. It's articulate, though, and chords/shreds pretty evenly. Some might call it bland. While it's not my favorite pickup, it has that M characteristic going on, and just works. I think the V would pair with it a bit better than the N.

If you've ever tried an L500R and XL...those are a very similar combo (regarding specs and sound) to the M22V and SD combo. Given the pricing, the M series is also a big win, as it hasn't changed prices much in its entire lifespan. I don't know how well they do with extremely low tunings, but for D standard and regular pitch, I will take them any day of the week. The C22B is also popular here, but I find it lacking compared to the SD.

If you want sound clips, I've made a few posts with links. If they prove too difficult to find, just search the Soundclick site for the band "Masticated Cows," and you'll find the "demos" I've done for various pickups.
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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby locorogue » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:29 pm

UnexplodedCow wrote: used both, in the same, as well as different guitars.


wow, now that’s some useful info, mucho appreciated. i just ordered a M22SD, M22V & N from Kiesel, so i’ll be doing some experimenting, though i believe i can save a lot of time with your insight. sadly, or not, i play a lot of styles, even mix in fingerpicking(ala Kotzen) while running around the fretboard, do a lot of tapping, kind of a schizo player. i could go on all day :wall:

in my pic, the black guitar has a C22b & the twin blade @ neck, while the brown one has th SD, i always liked the C22b until i installed the SD, the SD is a C22b killer, lol. i feeil i can play almost any style with the SD, the C22b actually sounds thin & weak, though the C22b sounds excellent with my 1x12 with an Eminence Delta Pro 12a.

the neverending quest for tone...

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby Cynical » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:24 pm

UnexplodedCow wrote:I don't know how well they do with extremely low tunings, but for D standard and regular pitch, I will take them any day of the week.

The M22SD works great in low tunings, IME. I don't know if it'll do djent, but for '90s death metal in C or B standard, it's great.

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:05 am

locorogue wrote:[wow, now that’s some useful info, mucho appreciated. i just ordered a M22SD, M22V & N from Kiesel, so i’ll be doing some experimenting, though i believe i can save a lot of time with your insight. sadly, or not, i play a lot of styles, even mix in fingerpicking(ala Kotzen) while running around the fretboard, do a lot of tapping, kind of a schizo player. i could go on all day :wall:

in my pic, the black guitar has a C22b & the twin blade @ neck, while the brown one has th SD, i always liked the C22b until i installed the SD, the SD is a C22b killer, lol. i feeil i can play almost any style with the SD, the C22b actually sounds thin & weak, though the C22b sounds excellent with my 1x12 with an Eminence Delta Pro 12a.

the neverending quest for tone...


I think you may like the V a little more in those cases, but, have fun with both neck pickups! You can always keep or sell the other. As for the C22B through the DP12A speaker, that I can understand. That speaker has such a flat response, especially on the low end, that it makes everything sound fat and huge. I was using one prior to the EM12 I now have. The Delta also has a little high-end rolloff that will save a "thin" sound. Used with a darker-voiced amp (I tried with a Legacy), I could roll the bass on the amp down to 1 or 2, otherwise it would be total mud. The M22SD has a bit more bass, but that treble is there, too.

If you really want it to scream, try it with a 1 meg volume pot; totally changes how the pickup behaves.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:56 am

I actually think the opposite may be true, especially for tapping and hammer ons, that a louder, higher output pickup that can push your amp and keep your sustain in motion might be better for unpicked notes. Organically, that is. Of course there are other ways of pushing an amp with a softer pickup onboard.

They're both very close, but the easiest way I think I could describe the differences between them is that the V is by a slim margin probably the prettier of the two, very nice for humbucker clean playing (and yet because of the big bottom end, I think the N a better jazz pickup.. you can hear it in Gil Parris' instructional videos). I like the V a good bit, It's got nuance, musicality, a delicate authority, and a "twinkling thickness" (it's a silly phrase but accurate I think) that is surprisingly hard to get with a lot of humbuckers when clean. When I played on a friend's friends JB200, all I wanted to do was stay on the clean channel and play soft major scale nuance!

However, when clean and split, the N is just a slate wiper.

For very slightly dirty mid-60's classic rock, I'd say it's almost a tie. For anything heavier, I would give it to the N, it's bigger, more robust, blends awesomely in the middle position with the SD, and pushes your amp harder. The Peter Green out of phase tones on my old DC are my favorite, beyond any Les Paul. It's just a louder pickup that carries all the signature characteristics of what the M line was supposed to be when they were introduced in the 70's and 80's, with "sledgehammer midrange" and all the jazz about sustain. Whereas the V hearkens back to a more traditional tone setup, and sort of pulls some of that "N" bigness back into "unadjusted PAF" territory. Whereas the N tackled/"corrected" (quotes advisedly!) what some might consider to be the issues that a PAF has, the V went straight at replicating a 59 PAF.

That said, that's a very beautiful, musical PAF that the V replicates (because I've played 50's PAF's and some of them can be not all that much to write home about, especially compared to the tightened up pickups that exist in that same territory then and now). You'll probably really like both.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby locorogue » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:27 pm

Cynical wrote:The M22SD works great in low tunings, IME. I don't know if it'll do djent, but for '90s death metal in C or B standard, it's great.


i adore my SD, my new favorite pup, wonder if any Carvin pup comes close for a 7 string? i have a 7 string fanned fret that i'd love to have an SD in, i currently have A70's in bridge and neck...installed passive

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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby locorogue » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:30 pm

thanks to all for the inputs.

I certainly appreciate it, and it's cool hearing the differing opinions, we all have different ears and gear, and that's what is cool, i can get an idea if i used this or that amp, etc. priceless forum i tell ya

the other cool thing is that we're keeping this thread bumped, not sure if it's a sticky

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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:02 pm

locorogue wrote:the other cool thing is that we're keeping this thread bumped, not sure if it's a sticky


It's not, but like the "social media" thread, it gets bumped and referenced enough that it doesn't necessarily have to be (although it would be nice if it were)!

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Re: re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby X1Glider » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:33 pm

locorogue wrote:
Cynical wrote:The M22SD works great in low tunings, IME. I don't know if it'll do djent, but for '90s death metal in C or B standard, it's great.


i adore my SD, my new favorite pup, wonder if any Carvin pup comes close for a 7 string? i have a 7 string fanned fret that i'd love to have an SD in, i currently have A70's in bridge and neck...installed passive

There is a pickup for a 7 that is very similar to the M22SD and it is called the C26T. Very similar tone but ever so slightly hotter.
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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:20 am

That's the newer, adjusted scale that (IMO) does not accurately depict how the M22SD sounds. That graph shows far less bass than the pickup actually produces to my ears. There's an earlier graph floating around the forums that seems to be more accepted as accurate.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:40 am

UnexplodedCow wrote: There's an earlier graph floating around the forums that seems to be more accepted as accurate.


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Re: A Pickup Description Post!

Postby X1Glider » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:18 pm

I'll give my Carvin branded pickup guitars a listen to tonight through the V3 to see which chart I agree with. (How did they make both charts so different?) I have the M22SD, C26T and A700 while all the others were changed to Seymours.
.
No matter what the result, there is still a manufacturer out there that will have a sound profile for a 7 that is similar to the M22SD. Like I said, there's thousands to choose from these days.


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