New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

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Uchida88
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Uchida88 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:05 am

I'm looking forward to trying the Hipshot headless system on a new HH2 i'm planning, but it's baffling why it can be built with the matching Hipshot headpiece that DOES take double ball strings:

Image

The headpiece features locking screws for single ball strings. When the screws are removed the channels become suitable for double ball strings


Go figure....Also- could the reason for the Kiesel headpiece be that the HH2 is made with a nut now instead of a zero fret?:

In late 2016, the Custom Shop significantly upgraded the HH2, replacing the JCustom bridge/tremolo with a Hipshot™ bridge or optional Hipshot™/Kiesel Tremolo System and new Kiesel headpiece and Graphtech nut. Additionally, the body was changed to a conventional solid-body design (versus the original chambered body design) with chambering optional.


If it has a nut now and no zero fret, single ball strings might at least work a little bit better- I've owned Steinbergers and an HH2 previously and 8-38 single balls sliding around on the zero fret (as discussed on the boards) made the strings near-useless. I have no experience with Vaders yet so I don't know if they use a nut.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:22 am

The Vader has always come with the custom Kiesel headpiece, even when it came with a zero fret, right? Only a couple early prototypes had the Holdsworth headpiece, correct?

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:58 am

Uchida88 wrote:I'm looking forward to trying the Hipshot headless system on a new HH2 i'm planning, but it's baffling why it can be built with the matching Hipshot headpiece that DOES take double ball strings:

*snipped-out pic**


Seeing that headpiece, it makes me wonder if it doesn't work with their headstock-end-adjustable truss rod. I've only ever seen that style on guitars/basses with pickup-end-of-the-neck truss rod adjustment access. :think: It seems like it might block the end of the TR.
Last edited by spudmunkey on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Koshchei » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:26 pm

I'm not sure that the Hipshot headpiece would actually work with double ball strings either. Unless it uses larger diameter grub screws (doubtful), the same problem would exist; the ball ends don't actually fit into the holes.

When the Kiesel headpiece originally came out, it was thought that they'd work with double ball strings as well.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby colossal » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:24 pm

It bums me out that the Hipshot headpiece doesn't accept double-ball strings. That said, there's probably like six people here out of thousands that actually do use DB strings, so I get it from the manufacturing point of view. Also, double ball strings are out for multiscale guitars.

I have been considering a VMx. I had a very nice call with La Bella and they were amenable to making custom sets with a certain minimum number of sets purchased. La Bella stainless double-ball are the best strings I have ever used so I am somewhat loathe to change hardware systems unless I can figure a workaround to keep using them, or Kiesel modifies the headpiece.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:59 pm

colossal wrote:It bums me out that the Hipshot headpiece doesn't accept double-ball strings. That said, there's probably like six people here out of thousands that actually do use DB strings, so I get it from the manufacturing point of view. Also, double ball strings are out for multiscale guitars.

I have been considering a VMx. I had a very nice call with La Bella and they were amenable to making custom sets with a certain minimum number of sets purchased. La Bella stainless double-ball are the best strings I have ever used so I am somewhat loathe to change hardware systems unless I can figure a workaround to keep using them, or Kiesel modifies the headpiece.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the double-ball would only work for 6-string models, right? Does anyone make 7 or 8-string double-ball sets?

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby colossal » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:06 am

spudmunkey wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the double-ball would only work for 6-string models, right? Does anyone make 7 or 8-string double-ball sets?

Yep, pretty much. I have never seen a 7 or 8 string double-ball set anywhere. Double-ball only seems to be a thing in the headless world. When I called La Bella, they were open to making custom regular or multi scale, single or double-ball set to my specs (7 or 8 ); would just need to buy a minimum number of sets. I have been thinking of getting a Vader multi scale. I would prefer a double ball headpiece but totally get it why Kiesel doesn't bother with the additional machining complexity. Even if the headpiece could take double-ball strings, it would require a custom made string set to have any utility. I might certainly chase that, but a thousand guys wouldn't. I really love (stainless) double-ball strings not only for their incredible sound and feel, but there really is no wear on the headpiece. The strings just drop in.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Tabare777 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:44 am

This is great news, thank you Kiesel! Now I can have my dream guitar❤️
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby diagrammatiks » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:24 am

Any word on if trems will be available on 27inch 7 string Vaders? Just waiting on some word before placing an order.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby DWG » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:57 am

FYI

Looks like the $50 intro price on the Hipshot trem has ended. Vader and Holdsworth builds are now at $100.

DWG

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:03 pm

That seems like an OK upgrade cost. The retail difference between their regular fixed bridge and the regular contour is $55 retail...and this is a modified (and as far as I can tell, exclusive) version and it includes the more complicated installation that the trem naturally comes with compared to the fixed.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:48 am

DWG wrote:FYI

Looks like the $50 intro price on the Hipshot trem has ended. Vader and Holdsworth builds are now at $100.

DWG


Not a terrible upgrade cost at all, since a regular Contour trem can be had for 80-100, plus Kiesel has tooling costs for the routing. $50 was a steal.
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby marcwormjim » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:36 am

Bump. I'm assuming no one's received a build with the new trem, yet? I'm looking forward to the day we can order a Graphtech ghost system in these.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Uchida88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:37 pm

HH2 update: I just got my new one

-This is my first time using hipshot and I'll say the hardtail is a solid upgrade from jcustom, loads and tunes up very easily, overall it just feels more heavy duty

-Does not take double strings but I like the smaller headpiece and double ball strings cost too much anyway.

-There is a nut and no zero fret. This is a great improvement. Zero fret string slippage is obviously non-existent now, so the advantage of no-slippage with double balls doesn't apply anymore.

-I believe this is the new solid body standard. I got into these guitars originally when seeking out a Steinberger variant, so I was never a big fan of the chambering anyway. The weight in the body creates a much better balance when wearing it with a strap. There still seems to be some hollow resonance to the guitar and the body is the same thickness so who knows.

-Compared to my 2014 HH2- I give the edge to the new pickups, but tonally the guitars are quite similar. I have standard frets on both and 9-42s definitely glide along a lot quicker on the new one, I haven't even thought about trying 8-38s.

Overall thumbs up and a keeper, though I sympathize with the people who are unhappy with the new additional charge for chambering.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:32 pm

I wonder if the new trem is the reason the model is solid now? The old trem just screwed into the top. This one needs a big hollow cavity and a rear trem cavity cover plate, etc like most other terms (floyd, wilky, vintage, etc). The changes seem likely to be connected. :think:

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Uchida88 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:28 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I wonder if the new trem is the reason the model is solid now? The old trem just screwed into the top. This one needs a big hollow cavity and a rear trem cavity cover plate, etc like most other terms (floyd, wilky, vintage, etc). The changes seem likely to be connected. :think:


Another reason why Kahler is the greatest. :) . I have one on an Ultra V but couldn't imagine it on an HH2 :lol:. I had too much familiarity with the nightmare Steinberger system so I skipped on JCustom initially. I'll eventually try the Hipshot though.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby hopkinwfg » Sun May 28, 2017 8:19 am

Hi guys ! Am glad the kiesel coy has made many progress and the ability to adopt new innovation... from vader to fanned frets and now a new bridge trem design by hipshot... cool but just wonder if anybody would make an unbiased judgement on the new hipshot tremolo system on these headless guitars ie vader and HH2.... and the thing is does it stays in tune after the dive bomb abuse ?

And does this hipshot trem be a need to go with F spaced pickups? If one wanna change to duncan pups?

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed May 31, 2017 7:03 am

hopkinwfg wrote:Hi guys ! Am glad the kiesel coy has made many progress and the ability to adopt new innovation... from vader to fanned frets and now a new bridge trem design by hipshot... cool but just wonder if anybody would make an unbiased judgement on the new hipshot tremolo system on these headless guitars ie vader and HH2.... and the thing is does it stays in tune after the dive bomb abuse ?

And does this hipshot trem be a need to go with F spaced pickups? If one wanna change to duncan pups?


This has been discussed quite a bit, and I've been in most of those threads. The Hipshot trem is stellar in guitars that have a headstock. I have not played the Vader, but its trem pivots are the same as the regular Contour, with the same spring type of system. WIthout the headstock, there is virtually no chance of binding in the nut, as the lack of string length prevents string stretching.

Regarding "regular," and "f-spaced," pickups, I found this article interesting regarding the magnet field of a pickup. http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Images/ ... netics.htm

Looking at the field strength around the magnets, I don't think the pole spacing matters nearly as much as people think. One particular entry to the "doesn't matter," category is that Eddie Van Halen uses "regular," spacing on his pickups, including the bridge ones. He played pickups that way even with his first guitar, and even the Wolfgang models are that way. I have not noticed a bit of difference in terms of how well they pick up, or the frequency response.

Blade pickups sidestep the issue entirely, though.
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Anthony7 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:57 am

I'm about to get an HH2X lefty. My salesman, MIke, told me it was the first lefty hipshot tremolo for the Holdsworth headless. I can't wait

When I say 'about', the delivery date was Wednesday.

I called FedEx Tuesday and asked what my 'hold' options were since I likely wouldn't be home. They said the only holding facility closed at 5:00 PM and was in Upper Marlboro. I can't get there at that time until the weekend with the traffic, so I let them attempt delivery hoping I might be home in the afternoon. I wasn't there.

So Wednesday at noon after seeing the failed delivery attempt, I found via their web-site that they had another site open until 9:00 that the FedEx person didn't tell me about.

I put the hold order in and expected to be able to pick it up today. It turns out the driver does not return the packages to the main facility until the morning. So my package was sitting in a truck overnight? Comforting. They then processed my order a day later and supposedly - supposedly I may be able to pick it up tomorrow. They couldn't tell me morning or afternoon, nor did I have the option to pick it up at their facility today.

Kiesel, please get another shipping option besides FedEx. United States Post Office has never failed me. The funny thing is that FedEx is contracted for all express deliveries with the Post Office.

At least FedEx did better than when they left my Heritage H150 ($2,000+ guitar) on my doorstep and said the owner signed for it - I live alone. I had to run home from work as I thought it was stolen.


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