New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Bundy » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:53 pm

If there was anything keeping off a Vader thus far, it's that my other two Carvin guitars are hardtail and my next one needs to have a trem.

I have no more excuses as to why I can't get a Vader. HSH for the win. :mrgreen:
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Dometalican » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:09 am

ilyti wrote:Vader with a trem? Long time in coming. But available in 7 and even 8 and a total redesign of the HH? Did not see that coming. Great news, provided this bridge was thoroughly tested and prototyped. Does anyone get why it wouldn't work on the 27" 6s and 7s, but works on the 8? What's the reasoning behind that? Not enough intonation room?


It probably has to do with intonation. Remember when Jeff was a little iffy about allowing the DC7X to come out with a Floyd Rose option? I'm sure they had to make some modifications to the bridge itself to let it happen. In this case, I'm sure they wanted to quickly send this out so they went with the more popular scale to put out the bridge (I defend this decision as not many people take kindly to the 27" scale). Who knows? Maybe, if they're bored, they'll set it up to where you could.
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby kennym9898 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:20 am

spudmunkey wrote:
kennym9898 wrote:
Greg Emm wrote:There IS an additional charge ($150) for chambering on the HH2 now. It's already in the builder.


I went through and saw that, so they need to rework the wording for the whole model. It lists it as "HH2 ALLAN HOLDSWORTH CHAMBERED BODY HEADLESS ELECTRIC GUITAR". With chambering being an option, it's not a chambered guitar by default. So now to get the chambering on what was once a chambered guitar originally, one would have to pay extra to get it chambered :roll: :roll:



Well, I imagine that this model, then, will be immune to the upcoming price increases, if that helps anything.



Ok, now they have the wording changed to it's a solid body guitar with optional chambering. As for the price if you go through the builder. Since it's a solid body guitar it does away with the Birch top. To get the chambering you have to get a top, cheapest top is $120 for flamed or quilted maple, birch top is not an option. It may be available with a call in though? So now to get the basic HH2 it would cost an additional $120 plus $150 with the base price of $1249, so $1519 for a basic HH2 with no options puts the price very high. I'd have to be immune to a price increase for many years.
For future references the HH2's have been moved to the solid body guitars section in the in stocks section. The Aquaburst HH2 is real tempting right now, as that's what I had planned. Even though it has the standard neck profile, jumbo frets and Kiesel/Holdsworth pickups which wouldn't be my choice. Also with the current pricing with the current layout of building one would be a bargain. I'd still be hesitant on ordering a newer model as I have no idea how much the chambering has changed.
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Koshchei » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:49 pm

This is legitimately awesome! Well done, Kiesel!

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Jbird » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:35 pm

Well, there goes any interest I had in ordering a HH2.

Double-ball strings for the win.

:(

I was actually thinking about selling my Steinberger and ordering a koa neck, body and top HH2. Won't do it now that they won't take double-ball strings.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:39 pm

Jbird wrote:Well, there goes any interest I had in ordering a HH2.

Double-ball strings for the win.

:(

I was actually thinking about selling my Steinberger and ordering a koa neck, body and top HH2. Won't do it now that they won't take double-ball strings.



I know the new headpiece can take single-ball strings...but does it take away the ability to use double-ball?

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Jbird » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:45 pm

spudmunkey wrote:
Jbird wrote:Well, there goes any interest I had in ordering a HH2.

Double-ball strings for the win.

:(

I was actually thinking about selling my Steinberger and ordering a koa neck, body and top HH2. Won't do it now that they won't take double-ball strings.



I know the new headpiece can take single-ball strings...but does it take away the ability to use double-ball?


From what I understand, the Vader headpieces can't take the double-balls, and the HH2 is now going to use the Vader headpiece.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby amon » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:16 pm

Jbird wrote:Double-ball strings for the win.

I only know of a few options remaining for double-ball strings, stainless steel from LaBella and nickel from D'Addario. Who else even still makes them?

My concern on the single-ball strings is, how well does the one set-screw hold the plain strings (especially the high-E)? I've got the Steinberger gearless tuners on one guitar, and the top two strings can sometimes slip. And that's not even with a tremolo.

What is the headpiece made of? Does Kiesel sell replacement headpieces if the threads wear out or strip?

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Koshchei » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Holds them fine. Just be careful not to over-tighten, or you will shear the string.

Not sure re replacement or what the headpiece is made of (I'm not anxious to scratch through the finish to find out -- considering its function, it makes sense that it's been case hardened). In any case, it's EXTREMELY well made; it looks like it's been milled from a solid billet. Anyway, it's not like Hipshot is a fly-by-night company that'll disappear tomorrow -- if you are concerned, I'd call Kiesel up and ask about getting it replaced if it breaks outside of warranty.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby Jbird » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:58 pm

amon wrote:
Jbird wrote:Double-ball strings for the win.

I only know of a few options remaining for double-ball strings, stainless steel from LaBella and nickel from D'Addario. Who else even still makes them?

My concern on the single-ball strings is, how well does the one set-screw hold the plain strings (especially the high-E)? I've got the Steinberger gearless tuners on one guitar, and the top two strings can sometimes slip. And that's not even with a tremolo.

What is the headpiece made of? Does Kiesel sell replacement headpieces if the threads wear out or strip?


GHS too (I live in the Battle Creek area) :)

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:36 am

The overall design looks like they took the Contour design, and fed it some growth hormone on the back side. It's not a bad look. I'm curious how it's all sprung to keep balance with the string tension, but if it's using a block, I'm guessing it's a shallower version of the huge one the stock Contours come with.

I've also had zero issues with the Vader headpiece. It doesn't slip strings, and I've only had a single string (out of about 100) that was sheared (B string). While it's possible, I think it's not going to be too common unless the lock screw is really cranked on. As for the headpiece itself, my guess is aluminum or brass. I know the saddles are brass.

This is definitely exciting, and for the intro price of $50 beyond a fixed-bridge is excellent (you can't even buy a regular Contour bridge for that price, let alone installed). Any idea how long that intro price is for?
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby lselvon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:22 am

amon wrote:If you could just come up with some kind of ergonomic placement for the output jack, I'd be interested in an HH.

That would be too easy!

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby lselvon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 am

Greg Emm wrote:There IS an additional charge ($150) for chambering on the HH2 now. It's already in the builder.

TOTAL RIPOFF.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby kennym9898 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:32 pm

lselvon wrote:
Greg Emm wrote:There IS an additional charge ($150) for chambering on the HH2 now. It's already in the builder.

TOTAL RIPOFF.

Nope it cost more $150 for chambering and another $120 for a top = $270. Merry Christmas from Kiesel Klaus!
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby amon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:33 pm

lselvon wrote:
amon wrote:If you could just come up with some kind of ergonomic placement for the output jack, I'd be interested in an HH.

That would be too easy!

I understand why it wouldn't be too easy — all the perpendicular milling and drilling is done by the CNC, but all the parallel drilling is done in manual processes. The output jack rout is cut on a dedicated machine, and small holes (strap buttons, the "tunnel" between pickups) are drilled by hand. What I'm asking for would likely require some new tooling. It'd be pretty sweet, though.

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby freakofnature » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:32 am

These guys @ Kiesel are going to bankrupt me.

Every single time I think I'm settled in on my main Kiesel/Carvin axes they come out with something new that is MADE for me.

I mean... It JUST SO HAPPENS that I joined an 80's hair metal tribute band just a couple months ago. What do you need to play in such a band? Why Trem's of course! So my absolutely AMAZING Multi Scale Vader (Best guitar I've EVER owned and I've owned literally 100's of Custom Shop Guitars through my 30+ years of playing) and my go to axe for everything NOT down tuned, my C66 both got benched and have been collecting dust. My current BABY is my JB24 which is just ridiculously fun to play AND look at and it's cohort is a really nice CT24. Both with Floyds. Those too will now be getting benched because I'm most likely going to be ordering 2 of these tonight. Gonna have to reach out to my boy Mike Jones and see what he thinks about some of my ideas for these.....

Ugh....

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:08 pm

Cant' wait to see what you come up with!

Feeling the new "sparkle" finishes at all? :wink: I think you need a silver or gold sparkle VaderX. :applause: Maybe McLaren yellow back and sides with the black sparkle top? :ninja:

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby freakofnature » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:30 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Cant' wait to see what you come up with!

Feeling the new "sparkle" finishes at all? :wink: I think you need a silver or gold sparkle VaderX. :applause: Maybe McLaren yellow back and sides with the black sparkle top? :ninja:


hahahahaha As much as I LOVE the sparkle finishes and it would be AMAZING for my 80's cover band, one thing I pride myself on is being all about paying for functional additions over cosmetic ones and keeping things on a good budget. So, I try to do somewhat unique things within that range of thought (Like my Black top / KRO and KRG backed Aries guitars). Of all the Kiesel/Carvins I've ordered over the years and it's been a LOT, that JB24 I bought a couple months back was actually the most expensive one I've bought.

So don't expect anything to drastic but I think they're definitely scream "FreakOfNature" builds when you see them. heheheh

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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby MatiasTolkki » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:30 pm

Well, it seems like the firesale has begun. Everyone and their mother is selling their hardtail vaders for the Vader X. I can totally understand why, but heck, this is a little out of control.
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Re: New Vader Tremolo Option; Holdsworth HH2 Changes

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:08 am

It's a great time to grab a used Vader. Admittedly, I thought about selling off a couple redundant pieces in order to fund a build, but, honestly, it's not time yet. Other priorities take priority.
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