OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:25 pm

arahobob wrote:It's a shame - Kiesel offers this variety with the CS and CT. Why not this?


The SH550 launched with only the flame top as the base, so there's a president...but based on the difference between a SH550 and a CS6, comparing the CT to this SH6, it seems $150 too high.

Not gonna lie...I still want one...but it's not as imminent as my first gut reaction was. Before I found out what the spec was, my first dream hypothetical built was plain maple top....which the SH550 eventually got.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby kennym9898 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:29 pm

I have to agree with what some are saying, they're moving out of the price range that brought a lot of customers to their brand. Seems it's going to more about the money rather than a good price point.
They've done it before in changing some models where you had to buy a premium top on a model that you didn't before.
I didn't read the fine print before when reading about the CS6 about the price. The PRS S2 line is at a better price for me, I'll just have to take more time looking for ones with good tops.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:14 pm

spudmunkey wrote:
GuitFiddle wrote:I wish that were the case, but alas...

PRS S2



Ahh, yes. I didn't know the S2 were made in the US. I had always thought they were made overseas and just assembeled here. Looks like just the hardware and electronics are from overseas, but the guitar is built here. That does put a whole 'nother perspective on it. I do know that the "S2" style top bevel is much cheaper to do than the "real" carved top

I do think that deal with the quilted maple from yesterday still would have been competitive...it's definitely less so knowing PRS (likely the primary competition to the CT line) has a made-in-america line for so much cheaper.


To add to it, there are also reasons the PRS S2s are priced where they are. The neck (not including the fretboard) are made from at least 3 if not 4 pieces of wood: headstock scarf joint, and then additional layers to build up the heel. Of course, I say this as someone considering a 5 or 7-piece Kiesel neck.
:lol:

The flat tops are also much much lower labor costs than the true carved top-style shaping, as well as slightly thinner overall bodies.

Lastly, while the tops are still solid figured maple caps (not just veneer tops), it's definitely a much lower grade:
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby kennym9898 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:31 pm

Yup, Spudmunkey. I know how they're constructed, I have a PRS S2 Custom24.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:42 pm

kennym9898 wrote:Yup, Spudmunkey. I know how they're constructed, I have a PRS S2 Custom24.


Ahh, sorry...I was more responding to the inisial S2 post showing how much less they cost than the new SH6.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby davedeath » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:19 pm

That neck should be very stable then....

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby ilyti » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:47 pm

Way out of my league, since I'm all about simple builds now, but I'm really looking forward to seeing some of these. Not long ago this in a 7 string would have been my ideal guitar so I am definitely happy they finally do a seven string semihollow, even if it has "elite builds only" attached to it.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby TylerE » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:38 pm

I wonder how hollow these are...

I've long wanted a budget Languedoc... aka "the Phish guitar". That's a true hollowbody with 2 f-holes though, and that's sort of the key to the sound... hollowbody guitar into a cranked Tubescreamer into a cleanish amp... basically holding the guitar RIGHT on the edge of feeding back so you can just dig a little harder and get basically infinite sustain on command.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:00 pm

TylerE wrote:I wonder how hollow these are...

I've long wanted a budget Languedoc... aka "the Phish guitar". That's a true hollowbody with 2 f-holes though, and that's sort of the key to the sound... hollowbody guitar into a cranked Tubescreamer into a cleanish amp... basically holding the guitar RIGHT on the edge of feeding back so you can just dig a little harder and get basically infinite sustain on command.



It seems to be constructed the exact same way as the SH550. The neck extends under the bridge pickup, and hits a solid section. then it seems hollow all the way through to the bottom strap button/ Flanking this hollow center section are two thin walls that run the length of the body where the pickups and bridge mount, then hollow on both sides.

In the launch video, Jeff sticks his fingers into the bridge pickup route in both directions, shines a flashlight into the F hole, looks into the control cavity, and knocks on the top all over the body. Seems decently hollow, just like the images I posted on the first page here: viewtopic.php?p=630459#p630459

Is it a steam-bent braced top with steam bent sides with a violin-style bridge? No.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby gpbarnett » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:23 am

spudmunkey wrote:I likely won't be able to order it until after the summer at the soonest. In the FB live yesterday, he was doing 1-piece 6A quilted tops for $200 upgrade, but I couldn't do it.
Image


I came really close to ordering one. The one piece flame tops (two billets were shown, one flame, one quilt) would look so great with a denim fade finish. Unfortunately, I can't afford a $2500+ guitar right now. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up buying an SH6 with specs very similar to my FG1 (claro walnut top) sometime next year.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby Dometalican » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:37 am

GuitFiddle wrote:
Warg Master wrote:It's nice to see some excitement for a new model introduction on this board for a change! :D

So finally we get a SH CT. It starts at two grand, and the only configuration offered is 'princess trim'. I don't want princess trim and I don't want it to cost 2 grand minimum. I want this configuration, but I want it in 'blue collar' trim. A 22 fret option would be most welcome also. The brilliance of Mark Kiesel's Carvin is fading fast. That brilliance was offering a workhorse guitar that the working Joe could afford in the configuration he found appealing. If you wanted to pump it up with fancy stuff and spend a bunch of money to do so, that was your choice. Today, we face down prices quickly getting neck-and-neck with Suhr, Tom Anderson, Schecter USA, etc etc except without the dealer network, warranty network, recognition, resale, and personalized customer service. And in cases like this, with only fancy trims available and many who want a more basic build - we are paying to play a billboard for Kiesel instead of what we actually want. What other US mfg in this space makes you purchase a flame top as the most basic model tier?


The times are a changing.. How do we know the wood supplier isn't jacking their prices on the woods too? Granted, Jeff could eliminate the woods that aren't even on the builder and advertise FlyingV's example of supplying their own wood so they can make their build(s) with some of the more rarer woods they offer currently but if the price of the wood they're getting is going up, what do we expect? Now, the fact that Jeff isn't being real with us on that (if that is the case) is where I stand with all of you because I DESPISE lack of communication (even with real life like when my wife doesn't tell me what's bothering her and plays the guessing game with me). I'd love for Jeff to tell us if that is why he can't do old-school 'Carvin' prices anymore. Considering how well their sales are doing, I would think they could afford pricing us cheaper unless the prices of the wood got jacked up.

arahobob wrote:Jeff says he's doing this one based on his current market.
His average builds are around the $1900 dollar mark. This new semi hollow will fit into that target price.
He could build them cheaper, but the numbers of those sales is much lower. He's not going to do a cheaper version (at this time of course).


There is a very frustrating post I had back when I thought not having the Gloss Back of the neck and Satin back of the neck finishes for the new Vanquish guitars (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=48766). The thing Mike said actually irked me. How can you call yourselves a 'Custom Shop' and using the #customshoppride for Twitter if you eliminate more options on the guitars?

Does some of this stuff take work? Of course it flippin' does; what else is new?
Couldn't they just charge more for the things that take more labor? They already did when they jacked up the price on the 'shreddy' guitars like the X220 and Ultra V.

I get that they do not want to risk people returning it after the 10-day trial to have it sit in the GIS section for ages but a. You don't know if something happened in the middle of the 10-week build as to why they cannot afford it anymore and b. That's why your sales people can tell the callers why Tung-Oil back of the neck is great and let the customer decide. You have the 10-day trial in place because you know people have no way of trying a Kiesel guitar so you have to put yourself in their shoes. Until QC is PERFECT, you can't just eliminate options just because the market does not care about it. The extra options do not require any additional resources. That's like a restaurant spending thousands on crab to only use it for ONE dish which would make it pointless for a restaurant to offer that meat unless they put it on more than 2 or 3 menu items.

Sorry for the rant. I'm glad for the people that begged for this guitar but...man, am I hoping they come out with a CTSH3 to go with the '6' like they do with the CS and CT series.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:44 am

Like many I think this is a very cool model--also like many I'm a little bummed that a traditional 22 fret neck isn't offered, especially since this is a set neck hog/maple @ 25 inches.

My guess is this is eventually going to come around to a 22 fret neck. I think--even though their sales figures illustrate that the average Kiesel buyer nowadays prefers a 24 fret neck--that the audience that wants this specific guitar is going to effect a push (or a decent enough number of public requests on social media) for a straight 22 fretter. A semihollow carved top with F holes is not your perceived shreddy, shrieking divebomber with a Floyd (even though I'm sure there will be some building them and using them that way). So I think Jeff will come around.

What's most surprising to me is the bottom end pricing for the model. Take something like the SH225 in the mid 80's: your top level model with stereo wiring, phase switching, and two splitters for the M22's was $690. In today's dollars that's a little under 1600 (like $1582 if the converter I'm using is correct).

Converter.

It sort of feels like the pricing no longer takes into account (or takes very little into account) the elimination of the dealer network and the end retailer.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby ElfDude » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:08 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:
It sort of feels like the pricing no longer takes into account (or takes very little into account) the elimination of the dealer network and the end retailer.


Agreed.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby Mike Jones » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:52 pm

Dometalican wrote:The thing Mike said actually irked me.


I'm sorry man, I wasn't trying to irritate anyone.
That's how Jeff explained it to us, so I was just forwarding the reasoning to you all, because I know you'd like to know why the options were being moved off menu.



The other thing I hope I'll be able to clear up is that Jeff misquoted the price for these models when he announced them.

SH6S $1899
SH6X $1999

SH7S $1949
SH7X $2049



For all of you that are serious about wanting a 22 fret version and want to purchase one, send me an e-mail with your name and info.
I'll put a list together and present it to Jeff to consider.
If he sees that there is in fact a serious demand for a 22 fret version perhaps we'll be able to get him to revisit the design.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:10 pm

Mike Jones wrote:
Dometalican wrote:The thing Mike said actually irked me.


I'm sorry man, I wasn't trying to irritate anyone.
That's how Jeff explained it to us, so I was just forwarding the reasoning to you all, because I know you'd like to know why the options were being moved off menu.


I think the perception is that the pricing, simply based on the verbiage used, is "what do you think we could get?" rather than "How much does it cost us to make, and how much should we sell it for based on a relatively standard gross profit margin?"

Mike Jones wrote:Jeff misquoted the price for these models when he announced them.

SH6S $1899
SH6X $1999

SH7S $1949
SH7X $2049



For all of you that are serious about wanting a 22 fret version and want to purchase one, send me an e-mail with your name and info.
I'll put a list together and present it to Jeff to consider.
If he sees that there is in fact a serious demand for a 22 fret version perhaps we'll be able to get him to revisit the design.



:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

That pricing puts it I think within $50 of the SH550 with a flamed top. Can't argue too much with that. It does use a slightly thicker top than the 550 so maybe they could only get 3 tops out of a billet where the SH550 could get 4...who knows.

You can get the Hipshot/Kiesel Contour which is pretty cool.

Still hope someday for a "CT3" version, as mentioned in previous posts, like what was added to the SH550 after a few years, but even just that little bit of pricing clarity is helpful. :)

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby dejabluguitar » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:41 pm

Are these price corrections Direct price or Sale price? I'm guessing sale price.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby Mike Jones » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:45 pm

dejabluguitar wrote:Are these price corrections Direct price or Sale price? I'm guessing sale price.


That's the actual price when I add it to an order in our system - so sale price?

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby gpbarnett » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:47 pm

ElfDude wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:
It sort of feels like the pricing no longer takes into account (or takes very little into account) the elimination of the dealer network and the end retailer.


Agreed.


The SH6 starts at $2000, and I'm guessing that most will come in around $3000 after options.

The best comparison I can think of is the PRS Hollowbody II. At Guitar Center and Sweetwater that model starts at $4400, with many close to $5800.

The closest guitar I have to an SH6 is my TK SX6, which was more than a PRS...

So I think Kiesel is still a comparatively good deal.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby morph » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:11 pm

Speaking of prices, it seems the current policy is that we get no price break if we request a less costly wood (i.e., plain maple or swamp ash instead of flame maple for the top). This seems to make no sense, as everything about the build would be the same, except that they use a cheaper material. Am I wrong about this? Has this ever been explained?

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!!

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:16 pm

morph wrote:Speaking of prices, it seems the current policy is that we get no price break if we request a less costly wood (i.e., plain maple or swamp ash instead of flame maple for the top). This seems to make no sense, as everything about the build would be the same, except that they use a cheaper material. Am I wrong about this? Has this ever been explained?


It hasn't since the SH550 was launched in 2010-ish with only a flamed maple top base model. Like the K-series, it's just that it's treated as a sort of "cadillac" model, and they don't want to sell a Cadillac with steel wheels.

I'm not defending it, just explaining the rationale the way I understood it. It took something like 5 years before the SH550CE was offered with a ceder top, which could finally be painted with solid finishes at a discount. They will do a K series in a solid paint, but I believe there's no discount.


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