OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

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MatiasTolkki
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby MatiasTolkki » Thu May 04, 2017 6:49 pm

NickCormier wrote:It's unfortunate, a year ago this was basically my dream guitar, but now I dunno.. I dunno if I want to spend that much money on a wood guitar. I'm all about the graphite/carbon guitars now, and Richlite fretboards to never have fret sprout/adjustment issues.. Also, I'm not really digging my CT7 (its good, just not what I want anymore, I dunno why I thought floyds were a good idea) but eh. Maybe in the future, who knows. A CT7 hollow with hipshot trem would be nice, but after I add the mandatory 5-piece neck, stainless frets, hipshot trem, color, it'd be pushing $2600++ or more most likely.

Also, the loss of the actual good CT headstock for 7 strings really hurts IMO.. If it was already programmed in before, I dunno why it had to be deleted last year. Now the options are pretty blah.


I feel your pain. the active electronics were something I really wanted on my next build (another JB200 or maybe a DC127) and they got discontinued. i'm now completely scared to play my JB200 for fear if something happens to it, I can't get that option ever again.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri May 05, 2017 11:02 am

I do think it's a little weak that he seems to, as a matter of ongoing policy, NOT read the product suggestions on the company's own forum. I know the guys in the shop relay some of the suggestions, but getting word passed along on those occasional things that have unusually massive support on the forum (multiscale efore they were added, P90's, Explorer shape and the like), and actually reading the posts from week to week is a totally different thing. He sees and takes suggestions on FB, which is an outside website, but doesn't take suggestions on the website Suggestion Box that his own company took the time to build.

The reason I say this is not to just nitpick.. the reason is this: there are a decent number of player's players who've been connected to the company for a long time. I only have one guitar and one amp from this co (which will change this year), but obviously there are a lot of guys here that have a nice collection of guitars stretching for a long period, and have offspring that now play too.

Facebook is a gigantic mess of a conversation where it's almost impossible to read every single thing someone puts up,, especially if they go into detail. The place is flooded with young guys just starting to get good (some just getting acquainted with guitar, period), and there's not the voices of experience, talking in relaxed, technical jargon (and without the meme-y FB style of exaggerated discourse) about directions of the product line.

It's a good enough crew here with some passionate voices who know what they're talking about and are totally devoted to this company. I don't know if it's because those voices are already considered to be "won over" and those masses out on FB are not that this place is an unread afterthought. . . but I think it would benefit Jeff to take a peek at the product suggestions from time to time to hear the well thought out, experienced players' suggestions and reasons.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby ilyti » Fri May 05, 2017 12:36 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:Facebook is a gigantic mess of a conversation where it's almost impossible to read every single thing someone puts up,, especially if they go into detail. The place is flooded with young guys just starting to get good (some just getting acquainted with guitar, period), and there's not the voices of experience, talking in relaxed, technical jargon (and without the meme-y FB style of exaggerated discourse) about directions of the product line.

I think it would benefit Jeff to take a peek at the product suggestions from time to time to hear the well thought out, experienced players' suggestions and reasons.

Totally true. But then again, it's obvious we'd say that isn't it?

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Bob77 » Fri May 05, 2017 1:18 pm

Just for clarification...is it just a bit of chambering or does this guitar actually have some serious wood removed from the body?

Very happy to see this day finally came. I am one of those who have been waiting for a semi hollow CT for a long time and I will probably get one. But I will not be one the guys rushing to place an early order. As many have stated, the current starting price is not very appealing. At least not yet with the little info available. I would need to see how this thing unfolds, how many more options become available, etc. before I commit over 2 grand to it.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri May 05, 2017 2:04 pm

I've mentioned before, almost a decade ago i remember hearing that Mark never visited the forum or read any of the product suggestions, either. So in that vein, it's par for the course. It was said that he listened to what people with INTENT said. Either by calling and saying "I'd buy one", or even by sending a letter. To them as business owners, someone clicking a check box on an online poll isn't as useful as we might think as it's seemingly not an accurate representation of the folks willing to spend actual money on whatever they 'vote" for.

Bob77 wrote:Just for clarification...is it just a bit of chambering or does this guitar actually have some serious wood removed from the body?


It's constructed just like the SH550. A just-about-fully-hollow, carved top (inside and out). In one of the first videos where he showed off an un-finished body, he turned one around all sorts of angles in front of the camera and stuck his fingers in and out of it to show how deep some areas were. There were no top-separate-from-the-body shots like they had when the SH550/575 was launched, but it seems just like it.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Bob77 » Sat May 06, 2017 4:29 am

spudmunkey wrote:I've mentioned before, almost a decade ago i remember hearing that Mark never visited the forum or read any of the product suggestions, either. So in that vein, it's par for the course. It was said that he listened to what people with INTENT said. Either by calling and saying "I'd buy one", or even by sending a letter. To them as business owners, someone clicking a check box on an online poll isn't as useful as we might think as it's seemingly not an accurate representation of the folks willing to spend actual money on whatever they 'vote" for.

Bob77 wrote:Just for clarification...is it just a bit of chambering or does this guitar actually have some serious wood removed from the body?


It's constructed just like the SH550. A just-about-fully-hollow, carved top (inside and out). In one of the first videos where he showed off an un-finished body, he turned one around all sorts of angles in front of the camera and stuck his fingers in and out of it to show how deep some areas were. There were no top-separate-from-the-body shots like they had when the SH550/575 was launched, but it seems just like it.


Thanks for the response. Being constructed like a SH550 is definitely more appealing.

Eagerly waiting to see how these guitars will unfold.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby rzbk777 » Sat May 06, 2017 4:55 am

I'm really considering one for my next build. I have everything I want in my collection expect a semi hollow. I look forward to this model going online, I would like to see all the specs/standard options in writing and play around with the builder.

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby MatiasTolkki » Sat May 06, 2017 7:27 am

ilyti wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:Facebook is a gigantic mess of a conversation where it's almost impossible to read every single thing someone puts up,, especially if they go into detail. The place is flooded with young guys just starting to get good (some just getting acquainted with guitar, period), and there's not the voices of experience, talking in relaxed, technical jargon (and without the meme-y FB style of exaggerated discourse) about directions of the product line.

I think it would benefit Jeff to take a peek at the product suggestions from time to time to hear the well thought out, experienced players' suggestions and reasons.

Totally true. But then again, it's obvious we'd say that isn't it?


Just because it's obvious us forum dwellers would say it, it's absolutely rational and the people on the forums are the people who have supported the company, on average, longer than the FB fans (not saying entirely because a lot of us are on the FB page as well). I want a return of the active electronics, and I will complain until I can get a JB200, even if it's an op50, with the active electronics again. The guitar is so much more versatile with it.

Hell even if it isn't a JB200, a DC127 would work too.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat May 06, 2017 5:16 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I've mentioned before, almost a decade ago i remember hearing that Mark never visited the forum or read any of the product suggestions, either. So in that vein, it's par for the course. It was said that he listened to what people with INTENT said. Either by calling and saying "I'd buy one", or even by sending a letter. To them as business owners, someone clicking a check box on an online poll isn't as useful as we might think as it's seemingly not an accurate representation of the folks willing to spend actual money on whatever they 'vote" for.


I'm not sure if this is an argument in support of having a Product Suggestion Thread on your products website, and not reading it, or not.

I get the sense that our Eternal Advocate is suggesting that the company is right to operate along the lines of what essentially, as far as I can gather, boils down to "Money talks, bull s#@t walks."

Which may be satisfying for the frustrated company owner, stressed at his lack of a crystal ball, and therefore annoyed at having to sit and stare at GIS models that don't sell... But I would maintain that it's about a silly an operating mindset as one could imagine.

Instruments aren't conceived at the end of another human being poking a rifle in the luthiers guts with one hand and a pile of ready cash in the other. They spring from his imagination and his aesthetic sensibility combined with an idea that something may have a strong likelihood of utility and approval out there in Guitar Land, and therefore might sell. Suggestion Boxes are just meant to contribute to that process, maybe jumpstart it on slow afternoons. The concept of innovation and running a business involves risk and the possibility of loss, and although the possibility exists that some might express a desire to see this or that addition or subtraction from a product line on a product suggestion thread, and wind up not buying immediately or even at all if the product suggestion is followed, deliberately tuning out the suggestions of all but those who are committed to buying an innovation On The Spot is a policy more suited to an illegal drug wholesaler rather than a global maker of fine instruments looking to expand the brand. If you're only going to see and acknowledge those few who have cash in hand right now at this moment, at the expense of the future and all it's potentials, that would be.... Extremely odd (clearly Kiesel hasn't done that).

In any case, how can someone prove their seriousness and commitment to buying something that doesn't exist? "Here's 2500... Hold on to it now while you research and develop some P90s, get your cnc's programmed to rout for soap bars on a FG1, and send it to me by the end of the year."

No... Most of these things get developed by the luthier following nothing but his inner voice (Jeff esque) or multiple voices asking in volume with some sort of simultaneity and over sustained time. But there's not much more you can do in terms of reassuring the luthier than to say, "Yes I will buy if you design it and do a good job of it." But not all innovations are quickly doable tweaks on preexisting models, like, "If you want a 24 fret traditional Bolt, place an order, call my guys, text me.." It's not always that easy as a mod on existing line.

The risk of making an instrument that doesn't sell (minimal in a one off custom shop anyway, outside of prototype r&d and CNC prog) is the risk of having missed a large cross section of your customer base who have gone elsewhere to buy something they would have preferred to buy from you but gave up because you never read their suggestions on your own Suggestion Box.

Nobody is saying the man has to build/act on even 7 percent of all suggestions. I just think it's weird they put it up and pay zilch attention to it. Why post anything? Like I said in my first post on this above, on the subject of (gasp) INTENT, you have people like Elf, like Bredo, like JCG, Coda, ioneater, and many many more who have been buying Kiesel guitars since the Carvin days, have have arsenals that will continue growing and are hungry for things that many others will also like and want to buy.

I just think it's weird that it never, ever happens.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 06, 2017 5:55 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:I'm not sure if this is an argument in support of having a Product Suggestion Thread on your products website, and not reading it, or not.

I get the sense that our Eternal Advocate is suggesting that the company is right to operate along the lines of what essentially, as far as I can gather, boils down to "Money talks, bull s#@t walks."



For what it's worth, there wasn't an opinion, argument or suggestion in the post. I didn't I say what I thought about it. I was just simply stating that it's basically par for the course. I'm not defending Jeff and his team's practices any more than I would defend one president for carrying on with terrible policy from the previous administration. It doesn't matter if the previous one did it first...it's the here-and-now we're talking about. If I were to add my own thoughts as an epilogue to the first paragraph, of COURSE I think anything that gets more than a few replies here should make it to someone's ear!

In any case, how can someone prove their seriousness and commitment to buying something that doesn't exist? "Here's 2500... Hold on to it now while you research and develop some P90s, get your cnc's programmed to rout for soap bars on a FG1, and send it to me by the end of the year."


Again, it could have nearly been a decade ago, but what I remember reading is that it's more about people just making some sort of "real" effort. Similar to how writing actual letters or phone calls to people in power or a petition with actual signatures has always had (and likely will continue to have) more of an impact than online petitions or trending hashtags. I imagine many will simply vote "yes" for every option considered, whether they would actually but them or not...But when people actually do more to reach out, that's when I imagine the opinions are more heavily-weighted. If the sales people actually talk to people who have called in to talk about their requests, I imagine that's more clear to them that there is a real demand.

To be clear, even though as an "Eternal Advocate", I don't agree with it and think that any time someone can come across new ideas, new inspirations, one should jump at it any chance they get. I work in a somewhat creative industry (interior design/custom furniture), and I set aside 3.5 hours every week (30 minutes a day for simply looking around at sources for creative products, project designs, etc). All the time I see things that I might not necessarily want to copy, but is an inspiration for something.

I just think it's weird that it never, ever happens.


In case it still wasn't clear, agreed. :lol: :rockon:

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sun May 07, 2017 5:56 am

Doctor Turn wrote:I just think it's weird that it never, ever happens.


Delegation of reading Product Suggestions vs reading them all yourself as owner/CEO vs finding a mix over time of both approaches. That is a tough thing for a leader -- how far out or how close up to hold the reins.

We know they read them and use them and we have many, many instances of that.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun May 07, 2017 8:53 am

I don't think that's an obscure or difficult question to answer at all in terms of present leadership. Jeff has always specifically said and demonstrated via his own actions that his favorite part of the job is engaging with the public via the organs of social media.

Mike Jones has clearly stated above, though, that Jeff doesn't look at the Product Suggestions page. My hunch is that the calmly, clearly elucidated expressions of product preference aren't as fun or as satisfying to his youthful personality as getting a camera on him and engaging live on Facebook and taking real-time feedback.

Which circles me back to my original statements above, which need no repeating. Everyone would fall asleep (if they haven't already). :think:
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Bob77 » Mon May 08, 2017 1:02 pm

If what has been said above is true [that direct inquiries through letters, phone calls, etc. are taken more seriously], then it makes it more tempting for one to place an early order.

But how does that work? Do I call and say, "hey, I want to be one of the first guys to buy a SH6 semi hollow ct, but it has to have two F-holes and a plain top. Credit card on hand." Or do 500 people have to call and/or write letters with the same request before it is taken seriously?

It seems like some things should be pretty easy to figure out without actually needing any costumer feedback. For instance, having two f-holes, the option for no f-holes at all, plain tops, 7 string option, etc., are kind of no brainers for a model like this.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby dejabluguitar » Mon May 08, 2017 5:48 pm

Bob77 wrote:If what has been said above is true [that direct inquiries through letters, phone calls, etc. are taken more seriously], then it makes it more tempting for one to place an early order.

But how does that work? Do I call and say, "hey, I want to be one of the first guys to buy a SH6 semi hollow ct, but it has to have two F-holes and a plain top. Credit card on hand." Or do 500 people have to call and/or write letters with the same request before it is taken seriously?

It seems like some things should be pretty easy to figure out without actually needing any costumer feedback. For instance, having two f-holes, the option for no f-holes at all, plain tops, 7 string option, etc., are kind of no brainers for a model like this.

The issue with a 2nd f hole is if the chambering near the controls would accommodate it. If it does have room, expect a big up charge for hands on work or CNC programming. They are taking orders for the SH6. So you won't be one of the 1st.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby spudmunkey » Mon May 08, 2017 5:54 pm

We also don't know if "no f holes" isn't already an option, which was available on most f-holed models, including all off the carved top ones.

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Postby Bob77 » Tue May 09, 2017 12:52 am

Ok, that makes sense. I can see the manufacturing challenges of the secondary f-hole, and the fact that they probably have the no f-hole option available.

I did not mean to imply I would be the first customer. I know there are people ordering already.

What I meant to say is that by simply observing trends, it is easy to see what customers have liked in the past in semi-hollow guitars, which can be an accurate predictor here.

Personally, plain tops and two f-holes would be the most appealing options. It is hard to deny that the PRS version of this guitar is really beautiful with the two f-holes regardless of what kind of top it has. But of course, it is all based on personal tastes.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby spudmunkey » Tue May 09, 2017 4:22 pm

I've seen people comment, around the interwebtubes, about the traditional F hole shape, and how it's "old" and "boring."

I disagreen, but it got me thinking...I don't think I've seen a single modern take on a "f-hole" that I thought looks good enough to be a standard cutout. Some were interesting at best, but didn't seem like it would be good-enough design to make it the standard cutout for a model. Most I can think of just seem too "try hard" or "different just for the sake of being different". :think:

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby apedrape » Tue May 09, 2017 5:03 pm

omg, i had given up on a ct semi hollow. just in time for my bday :D

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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed May 10, 2017 10:37 am

spudmunkey wrote:I've seen people comment, around the interwebtubes, about the traditional F hole shape, and how it's "old" and "boring."

I disagreen, but it got me thinking...I don't think I've seen a single modern take on a "f-hole" that I thought looks good enough to be a standard cutout. Some were interesting at best, but didn't seem like it would be good-enough design to make it the standard cutout for a model. Most I can think of just seem too "try hard" or "different just for the sake of being different". :think:

My take on F holes always used to be "Wimpy and soft." Like no masculine hard rocker would play a guitar that looked like a demure low volume violin. I used to watch Clapton playing his ALbert Hall Crossroads solos (and the rest of that latterly part of the bands' existence) and say to myself "Why would such a then-heavy guitar player play such an un-heavy guitar build in those heavy songs?" It never made sense to me.

All these years later my mind was pretty much in the same headspace when it came to semihollows in rock and roll, but tbh I never took much time actually playing through a lot of semihollows. I have to admit that it was the elfdude quadrant of this board that opened my eyes, and it took me into the space of appreciating the tones that these guitars can put out, that solid bodies can't.. and also that very unique overdriven sound that a semihollow can produce (with a good center block) that's unlike anything that a Strat or a Les Paul type guitar can. 335's, Vikings, Collings, D'Angelico's, FG1's etc.. it's a very tight, compressed, unique crunch. I'll get one eventually.
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Re: OMG OMG OMG!! New SH6 Semi Hollow CT!!!!!! SQUEE!!! -MOD EDIT- SEE P. 3 FOR UPDATED PRICING.

Postby Bob77 » Fri May 12, 2017 11:44 am

Doctor Turn wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:I've seen people comment, around the interwebtubes, about the traditional F hole shape, and how it's "old" and "boring."

I disagreen, but it got me thinking...I don't think I've seen a single modern take on a "f-hole" that I thought looks good enough to be a standard cutout. Some were interesting at best, but didn't seem like it would be good-enough design to make it the standard cutout for a model. Most I can think of just seem too "try hard" or "different just for the sake of being different". :think:

My take on F holes always used to be "Wimpy and soft." Like no masculine hard rocker would play a guitar that looked like a demure low volume violin. I used to watch Clapton playing his ALbert Hall Crossroads solos (and the rest of that latterly part of the bands' existence) and say to myself "Why would such a then-heavy guitar player play such an un-heavy guitar build in those heavy songs?" It never made sense to me.

All these years later my mind was pretty much in the same headspace when it came to semihollows in rock and roll, but tbh I never took much time actually playing through a lot of semihollows. I have to admit that it was the elfdude quadrant of this board that opened my eyes, and it took me into the space of appreciating the tones that these guitars can put out, that solid bodies can't.. and also that very unique overdriven sound that a semihollow can produce (with a good center block) that's unlike anything that a Strat or a Les Paul type guitar can. 335's, Vikings, Collings, D'Angelico's, FG1's etc.. it's a very tight, compressed, unique crunch. I'll get one eventually.


Exactly! It is really hard to deny the awesomeness of these types of guitars. It's really the best of both worlds combined into one instrument. Every since I got my 335 I have not felt the need/desire to get another solid body electric guitar.
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.


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