Vader guitar... pros and cons.

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gibvel
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Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:21 am

Hi,

Unfortunately, for my marriage :D , I've been getting jazzed with Carvins again (been too long since I ordered my last one). Jeff has really brought some interesting things to the guitar shop.

I'm interested in the Aries and the Vader. However, being from the "traditional guitar" frame of mind I've never played or handled a headless.

So, my question is, what are the pros and cons, in you guys opinion, of a headless guitar?

Thanks
Mark

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Coda
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby Coda » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:35 am

At the risk of stating the obvious, the compact form of the Vader lets you take it and play it just about anywhere. I've taken mine on family vacations, almost as an afterthought - there's always enough space to tuck it in after the truck is packed.

Cons? Not many for me. It's equally comfortable on a strap or on my knee, and it feels and sounds like a full sized instrument in most other respects... unlike some other "travel" instruments.

And it looks cool.
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gibvel
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:11 am

Cool. Thanks, Coda

Didn't think about it being more compact.

How much smaller is it, than say, the DC127 or the Bolt. Both of which I have.

The design is really starting to grow on me.

As far as Mechanically, how are they strung? Do they use special strings? I assume you tune from the bridge.

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby mangolassi » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:39 pm

The Vader is 31.5" long and weighs about 6 lbs, depending on the options of course.

I think a major con at the moment is that you can't get any exotic bridge options with a headless. Okay, they have a tremolo for the Vader but you won't get it with a piezo pickup for instance. If you order the multiscale version you won't even be able to get it with a tremolo.

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texastoast
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby texastoast » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:27 pm

This is coming from a man who never had an interest in headless. Bought a VM7 to try out the multi thing for a while. Never thought I would like it much.

Pros: Great when sitting, really comfortable standing. The guitar actually fits well with both strap buttons much to my surprise since one is for standing the guitar on end. It is light. It looks small and is in many ways. It does not feel small in any way. Awesome belly and fore arm cut. Holds tune perfectly. Looks cool to some. Novel in some ways.

Cons: novel and looks ugly to some. For the multi scale your pickup options are limited to say the least. Unless you are patient and have some extra money. The lithium pickups are growing on me more and more every day. But I would replace them if I had something easy to obtain. Other than that I would not mind buying a six string fixed and trem version. Probably will own both before the year is out. I need to sell a few more and I am getting down to guitars I really do not wish to sell. But like you I too have a wife that must be happy.

I have never played an aries so I can not compare unfortunately.

I do not think you can go wrong either way. I really was very impressed with the vader for what that is worth.

Good luck on the hard choice.

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Koshchei
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby Koshchei » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:37 pm

gibvel wrote:Hi,

Unfortunately, for my marriage :D , I've been getting jazzed with Carvins again (been too long since I ordered my last one). Jeff has really brought some interesting things to the guitar shop.

I'm interested in the Aries and the Vader. However, being from the "traditional guitar" frame of mind I've never played or handled a headless.

So, my question is, what are the pros and cons, in you guys opinion, of a headless guitar?

Thanks
Mark


Hey Mark!

This will sound weird, but there are absolutely no cons. Pros are lighter weight, more compact, better ergonomics, more precise tuners, same action and scale, same tone.

It uses regular strings that are clamped at the nut and hooked into a claw at the bridge, where it's tuned.

Edit: no piezo at present, but that's not really a con, so much as it is a limitation that can probably be easily overcome in the future.

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Coda
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby Coda » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:17 pm

gibvel wrote:How much smaller is it, than say, the DC127 or the Bolt. Both of which I have.


Bolt - Vader(7) - DC

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CT624 - SH445 - Bolt+ - SCB7 - Vader7 - DC125 - Bolt Kit

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby Ron P » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:04 pm

One con - you can't use a clip on tuner. :(

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:04 pm

texastoast wrote:This is coming from a man who never had an interest in headless. Bought a VM7 to try out the multi thing for a while. Never thought I would like it much.


What do you think of the multi scale? Easier? Harder? Much difference?

Mark

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:06 pm

Coda, thanks for the pic man!! It does look smaller but, it seems the general consensus is that it doesn't necessarily feel that much smaller.

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arahobob
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby arahobob » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:59 pm

Ron P wrote:One con - you can't use a clip on tuner. :(


You absolutely can. I just used one ten minutes ago! :D
Right on the head piece.
Works just fine.
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby arahobob » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:07 pm

More size comparisons to other Carvin guitars.
Image

Vader.
Pros. Super comfy. Love the body shape / contours.
Love the neck through upper access. Great tuning stability. Looks awesome. Light weight

Cons. Wife hates it (stupid 80s guitar )


Aries.
Cool take on the super strat. I dig the bevel.
All around fine guitar - didn't wow me as much as the vader.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Koshchei
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby Koshchei » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:07 pm

gibvel wrote:
texastoast wrote:This is coming from a man who never had an interest in headless. Bought a VM7 to try out the multi thing for a while. Never thought I would like it much.


What do you think of the multi scale? Easier? Harder? Much difference?

Mark


Easier, but not much difference. The frets just follow the angle of your hand up the neck a little more naturally. As with stainless frets, a 20" radius, or a tung oiled neck, I don't know why you wouldn't go for it if it was available (unless you're a trem guy).

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MarkusB
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby MarkusB » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:12 am

From a purely rational point of view, I think headless design is simply the way to go. Weight, stability, ergonomics, size... everything is just plain better on a well-designed headless wrt a traditional design. I went totally headless two years ago and I can't see a reason to go back... Even my main guitar, a nylon classical, is headless (and btw, it has RMC piezos on it).

The only reasons I see NOT to go headless are (1) if you really don't like the aesthetics, or (2) if you can't live without doing the neck bend trick. :D

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby texastoast » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:02 am

gibvel wrote:
texastoast wrote:This is coming from a man who never had an interest in headless. Bought a VM7 to try out the multi thing for a while. Never thought I would like it much.


What do you think of the multi scale? Easier? Harder? Much difference?

Mark


Like others have said, the adjustment took about 5 min to get used to it. Very natural. In fact the adjustment I made was to relax and allow my hands fall more natural. They follow the fan by default. I thought palm muting may be a problem because I rest on the saddles a bunch. Come to find out that is a very natural angle on the bridge as well. String tension is great.

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby GuitFiddle » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:29 am

Even crusty, cynical old me has been tempted by a Vader at times. Not enough to pull the trigger though.
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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:36 am

texastoast wrote:
gibvel wrote:
texastoast wrote:This is coming from a man who never had an interest in headless. Bought a VM7 to try out the multi thing for a while. Never thought I would like it much.


What do you think of the multi scale? Easier? Harder? Much difference?

Mark


Like others have said, the adjustment took about 5 min to get used to it. Very natural. In fact the adjustment I made was to relax and allow my hands fall more natural. They follow the fan by default. I thought palm muting may be a problem because I rest on the saddles a bunch. Come to find out that is a very natural angle on the bridge as well. String tension is great.


Not knowing much about the multi-scale what does it do for the tension? Does it actually make all the strings about the same tension?

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:38 am

GuitFiddle wrote:Even crusty, cynical old me has been tempted by a Vader at times. Not enough to pull the trigger though.


Believe me, I know what you mean. I think the headless is kinda cool though. Just don't know if I could get used to it? :roll:

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:41 am

arahobob wrote:Cons. Wife hates it (stupid 80s guitar )


:lol:

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Re: Vader guitar... pros and cons.

Postby gibvel » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:45 am

How about the placement of the volume and tone knobs. They seem a lot farther back, and over, than the DC and bolt.


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