Slotting the Nut

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:00 am

Bob77 wrote:
What about mixing dry teflon and silicone at home? :mrgreen:

These are not things I just have laying around the house. Especially not purpose built, clear, colorless silicone goop (which itself isn't cheap). What's also useful with the Sauce is the applicators it comes with. Even toothpicks are too fat to get into the slot of the top couple of string slots on a corian nut. I'm not the biggest fan of those Gibson corian nuts (they're on pretty much everything Gibson makes, as they won't move to graphite or subcontract 3rd party TUSQs from Graphtech like Kiesel, Hag, etc. (The vintage white Hagstrom nuts.. they're on that sweet Viking and on the HIIN OT, they're dead ringers for the Gibby corian nuts)

Nothing is more aggravating than soloing into a big bend and hearing that awful snap of string binding coming loose and your G string (the usual suspect) just dumps slack, way out of tune. When I get that on my Les Paul in particular, I know it's been a few too many string changes without any Sauce added. It's not as much of an issue on my HIIN since the neck is very straight, the headstock is shaped like a set neck style guitar, but it's staight as a pencil, just like a Tele or a strat. No break angle at all (it's a bolt on).
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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UnexplodedCow
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:29 am

Doctor Turn wrote:Nothing is more aggravating than soloing into a big bend and hearing that awful snap of string binding coming loose and your G string (the usual suspect) just dumps slack, way out of tune. When I get that on my Les Paul in particular, I know it's been a few too many string changes without any Sauce added. It's not as much of an issue on my HIIN since the neck is very straight, the headstock is shaped like a set neck style guitar, but it's staight as a pencil, just like a Tele or a strat. No break angle at all (it's a bolt on).


I ran into similar issues on my Guild, until I learned about string tying. Less wraps = less chance for slack/slip, and it cured the problem, though I did subject that guitar to the graphite (on white nut) and that made an obvious mess. I think any guitar with a vibrato benefits the most from any type of lube. For fixed-bridge stuff, I've never used lube, and haven't really had problems, again after string tying, or locking tuners. Never had to lube a fixed-bridge Carvin, with the 6IL headstock.
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Doctor Turn
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:42 am

Carvins benefit (like mine does) from a greatly relaxed break angle, even if you do go with a traditional paddle without straight string pull. They also have since just past the mid 80's used first graphite block nuts (like on my old set neck DC)--right after they retired brass--and now used Graphtech composite. Both really don't require any help from a lube.

This is something that's really most likely going to come up on a less effective nut from the old school, with huge break angles on a Gibson headstock with sideways string pull thru a less slippery nut.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Bob77
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:43 pm

@Doctor Turn, I just put a bit of lube in a q-tip. It seems to work well for me :mrgreen:


@Unexploded Cow, very true about not tying the string around the tuner post excessively - which tons and tons of guitar players do. I learned it the hard way, but now I just go around the post a couple of times, maybe 3 times the most and call it a day. So far this has proven more effective than having two miles of string cramped around the post lol. This is actually one of the cool thing about locking tuners - they make string changes even easier.
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.

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2Plus2isChicken
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 am

The Vaseline didn't work. I ended up loosening my strings and wiping as much of it off as I could. The guitar actually stays in tune better after doing that, although not perfectly. I need to do something because in my 21 years as a guitar player I have never had one stay in tune through string bends, so my lead playing and vibrato suffer because I'm afraid to bend strings. Why can't a guitar just stay in tune off the shelf?
Guitars:
2x Carvin Bolt
DC145
AE185
Ibanez RG1570 and Mikro
2x Fender MIM Strat
Ovation Celebrity

Amps:
V3M
Legacy 3
VT16
Quilter 101 Mini Head
Carvin Vintage 1 x 12 cab
Carvin Legacy II 2 x 12 cab

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Bob77
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:04 am

2Plus2isChicken wrote:The Vaseline didn't work. I ended up loosening my strings and wiping as much of it off as I could. The guitar actually stays in tune better after doing that, although not perfectly. I need to do something because in my 21 years as a guitar player I have never had one stay in tune through string bends, so my lead playing and vibrato suffer because I'm afraid to bend strings. Why can't a guitar just stay in tune off the shelf?


So the vaseline trick did not work and got things messy. Told you!! Sorry...couldn't resist! :lol:

Seriously though, something ain't right here. After 21 years of playing you should be able to set up your guitars properly.
Now, it is totally possible that a poorly made and out of spec guitar won't hold a tuning no matter what.

So are all your guitars unable to stay in tune including the Carvin/Kiesel ones? I had an Ovation celebrity years ago that would never stay in tune. Really crappy nut, bridge and saddle; all poorly manufactured and setup. Sold it and got an USA Made Ovation Legend that cost three times as much. Night and day difference. The USA made Ovation held its tuning all the time even with aggressive playing. Go figure...
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.

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2Plus2isChicken
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:28 pm

That is right. None of my electric guitars stay in tune. Ever. My Ovation acoustic does fine. I can go a period of time playing basic chords and the electric guitars do fine, but any sort of string bending results in at least a slightly out of tune string. This includes an Ibanez RG with locking tremolo. I've even had guitars set up and none of them hold perfect tuning when bending. I've always just dealt with it or assumed that slight tuning loss is expected even with a setup, but I hear Paul Gilbert or Pete Thorn play and they almost never go out of tune, and they use hardtail bridges and non-locking tremolos most of the time. I don't get it. There's no way I own 7 electric guitars of varying price ranges and none of them will stay in tune as well as those guys' guitars unless there's something I'm not doing right, which I don't see what it could be. I've only ever really used graphite shavings a couple times in the nut slots though.
Guitars:
2x Carvin Bolt
DC145
AE185
Ibanez RG1570 and Mikro
2x Fender MIM Strat
Ovation Celebrity

Amps:
V3M
Legacy 3
VT16
Quilter 101 Mini Head
Carvin Vintage 1 x 12 cab
Carvin Legacy II 2 x 12 cab

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Bob77
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:50 pm

That sucks man. My electric guitars stay in tune. The only one I had a little bit of trouble with was a Carvin bolt-t with the wilkinson tremolo. The tuning on that one was spotty. Sold it and years later got another Carving bolt-t (the one i have now) and changed the wilkinson to a vs100. No more tuning issues after that.

I would say, if you are 100% sure there are no issues with hardware or nuts/saddles out of spec, then the culprit is certainly strings binding at the nut and/or saddle due to lack of lubrication.
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:21 pm

Gibsons, Fender, Ibanez, kramer, Hagstrom (Vintage and modern)... my Carvin (it's been about two full years now since I took the deluxe flip locks off from behind the nut, allowing that cut graphite nut to work in conjunction with those Gotoh-Carvin branded tuners on their own for the first time without locking assistance). I've not now or in the past any guitar that stays in tune better. I've guitars that stay in tune equally well, but none better. That includes straight neck/string pull Fenders (2 USA strats over the years).

I even once asked my tech when we were customizing that 3 x P90 axe, out of sheer boredom and a desire to tinker (I'd just changed the 150's bridge to the modern Kahler that locks to hardtail), whether or not I should chuck the old graphite nut on the Carvin in favor of a TUSQ... and he said he didn't see a single benefit to doing so.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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2Plus2isChicken
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:07 pm

I know tuning issues make me play less than I should. I've had times where I would pick up a guitar and the tuning issues made me just forget playing and put it down.

Out of all my electric guitars, the one that holds tuning the best is one of the Carvin Bolt guitars I own, which is great since it's my favorite guitar anyway. I'm going to get my tuning issues fixed, though. The Ibanez has to have some binding at the saddles since the nut shouldn't even be a factor. I do stretch my strings but I'm not sure what the best method for it is. I've heard several different ways, including one that stretches the entire length of a string, but that one is difficult to do on the high strings and with low action.
Guitars:
2x Carvin Bolt
DC145
AE185
Ibanez RG1570 and Mikro
2x Fender MIM Strat
Ovation Celebrity

Amps:
V3M
Legacy 3
VT16
Quilter 101 Mini Head
Carvin Vintage 1 x 12 cab
Carvin Legacy II 2 x 12 cab


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