Slotting the Nut

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bshadel
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Slotting the Nut

Postby bshadel » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:36 pm

Hey guys,

I'm looking at a GIS right now and it's strung with 10s. I play 9s. Mike said they could change them out for me. Do you suppose by changing them to 9s it would introduce too much slop at the nut?

Thanks.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby texastoast » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:55 pm

Not at all.

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:20 am

The nut being slotted for 10s, and then switching to 9s is not an issue at all. The gauges are close enough that you're not going to have much slop at all. If the nut were slotted for huge strings (say, 13s and up) then you might hear a little string buzz, but even then it's not guaranteed because of string downforce in the nut. A properly cut nut (and Carvin/Kiesel does a great job on each of their guitars in my experience) will be a "U" shape, and not a "V." The former fits the string, and the latter will bind.

The inverse *is* a problem. A nut that's cut snugly for 9s, and then has 10s put on it will experience bind. I had a DC135 with the issue, and slowly enlarged the slots by dragging a string back and forth through the slot to slightly enlarge the slot (I did not have slotting files at the time). For the plain strings, I actually spun them in the slots, using regular hex core strings.

A little lube in the nut slots can also help with any potential tuning issues, particularly when a vibrato is used. The graphite nuts are great, but bind can still happen.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:43 am

What is a good thing to lubricate the nut slots? Preferably something found around the house.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:04 am

I've heard pencil graphite can work well. I'm sure every following post will say something along the lines of "Big Bends Nut Sauce would be around the house if you bought some...". :lol:

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:56 am

Aren't the TUSQ nuts made from graphite? Or is it something else? I think I heard chap stick works too but I never tried it.
Guitars:
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:45 pm

X2 on the trick of using the strings as a "file" when trying to fit thicker strings into smaller slots. But whether you are using the proper files or the strings themselves to widen the slots, it is a good idea not to go down. You want the slot wider not deeper.

About lubes...go to the hardware store and get any teflon lubricant that says "dry" on the label. It will probably cost 5 bucks. This is the stuff that dries clear, so you don't have a mess of stuff dripping. Just add a tiny bit on each slut, let it dry and you are good to go. Don't go with that overpriced stuff they sell at the music stores.

Vaseline can work too but it will not last as long as a teflon lubricant.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby UnexplodedCow » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:13 pm

Seconding vaseline as the cheap solution, and "dry" teflon. I've some Daddario nut lube around here, and it reminds me of a high viscosity synthetic oil. Very sticky and doesn't flow too much under pressure. Vaseline doesn't last as long, but it doesn't break down the plastic in the nuts, and doesn't turn gummy. Chapstick dries out and can get gummy, as can most other vegetable-based oils (red can 3-in-1 or WD-40 for examples). Petroleum-distillates often attack plastics and glues, including the finish on guitars, so they're usually not the greatest, though I'm not sure of the exact plastic that's used in Graphtech nuts.

Pencil lead can work, too, or a tube of graphite (lock lube), but it doesn't stay in place very well, and tends to get all over everything, and make a visual mess.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:48 pm

WD-40 is a terrible lubricant, anyway. It's more of a solvent/cleaner.

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby texastoast » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:40 pm

spudmunkey wrote:WD-40 is a terrible lubricant, anyway. It's more of a solvent/cleaner.

Was developed to be a water displacement agent.

I like chap stick on trem arms and trem pivot points. I like to use big bends nut sauce for the nut and bridge saddles. It is a bit expensive but lasts a long time. I have had the medium size syringe for several years. And I go through about twenty sets of strings a year.

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby UnexplodedCow » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:14 pm

texastoast wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:WD-40 is a terrible lubricant, anyway. It's more of a solvent/cleaner.

Was developed to be a water displacement agent.

I like chap stick on trem arms and trem pivot points. I like to use big bends nut sauce for the nut and bridge saddles. It is a bit expensive but lasts a long time. I have had the medium size syringe for several years. And I go through about twenty sets of strings a year.


Yup; it's not so much a lube as a coating to keep water at bay (and it does a great job of it). I've seen people use it as a lube, though. For light stuff (door hinges) it's sufficient. Beyond that, totally inadequate, and I've seen it turn certain types of plastic rather gooey (may have been styrene based).

I don't know if Nut Sauce comes with an applicator, but the D'Addario stuff comes with a couple different sizes, and can get in the slots of a nut nicely. Great stuff on knife edges, saddles, nuts, and string trees. Probably the same type of thing as Nut Sauce.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:33 am

The whole "trick" about vaseline with pencil shavings is just silly. There are so many products that have graphite, teflon or whatever chemical you need for lubrication.

And that "nut sauce" product is ridiculously over priced for what it is. You can find the same stuff at Home Depot or auto parts stores for just a few dollars. Amazing how people make money marketing things for guitar players that are nothing more than the same stuff you can find in hardware/auto parts stores.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:07 am

Here's a product that works reaaaaaally great. It is a teflon based lubricant, but once applied it is totally dry. Hard to tell it's even there. Dries up in seconds after you apply it too. $5 at most hardware stores.

Put a little bit on the nut and/or bridge (for tremolo equipped guitars) and your guitar will be happily in tune :mrgreen:
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:39 pm

I'm going to try the Vaseline thing. For less than $5 for a huge tub of it I'll give it a shot, especially since I don't have to drive farther than the local grocery store to get it.
Guitars:
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:12 am

2Plus2isChicken wrote:I'm going to try the Vaseline thing. For less than $5 for a huge tub of it I'll give it a shot, especially since I don't have to drive farther than the local grocery store to get it.


I don't think it's worth it. I tried in the past and it didn't do anything for my guitars.

Vaseline it's not the right kind of lubricant for a metal string sliding over another material. It doesn't last and it is too greasy/sticky.

Get the right stuff and don't look back! You want something with graphite or teflon in it.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby 2Plus2isChicken » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:40 am

Well if it doesn't work at least I'll have something for chapped lips.
Guitars:
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DC145
AE185
Ibanez RG1570 and Mikro
2x Fender MIM Strat
Ovation Celebrity
PRS SE Custom 24

Amps:
V3M
Legacy 3
VT16
Quilter 101 Mini Head
Peavey JSX Head
Fender Super Champ XD
Carvin Vintage 1 x 12 cab
Carvin Legacy II 2 x 12 cab

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:14 pm

2Plus2isChicken wrote:Well if it doesn't work at least I'll have something for chapped lips.


Among other things.... :lol:
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Bob77 wrote:The whole "trick" about vaseline with pencil shavings is just silly. There are so many products that have graphite, teflon or whatever chemical you need for lubrication.

And that "nut sauce" product is ridiculously over priced for what it is. You can find the same stuff at Home Depot or auto parts stores for just a few dollars. Amazing how people make money marketing things for guitar players that are nothing more than the same stuff you can find in hardware/auto parts stores.

Well to be fair, Nut Sauce is different from the Teflon dry film lubricant you listed for 6 bucks. Big Bends developed a blend of teflon and silicone (your industrial stuff is silicone free) that's made for instruments in tiny spots in super tiny amounts, meant to cleanly go a long way, whereas the automotive/hardware stuff is for larger items to be sort of slathered and to be applied in larger amounts.

So while lube is lube and slippery is slippery... on a white corian Gibson nut (really don't need it on self-lubing Graphtech nuts and graphite, which IS what pencil lead is made out of lol, I really only use it on acoustic nuts, and my vintage Hags and Gibson) I'm also not putting pencil lead and vaseline. It'll look disgusting.. a purpose built product in hyper small quantities is just fine with me. Stuff takes forever to even get 1/2 of the way thru! And it works very well, which is why so many road techs keep it in their arsenals.
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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:25 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:
Bob77 wrote:The whole "trick" about vaseline with pencil shavings is just silly. There are so many products that have graphite, teflon or whatever chemical you need for lubrication.

And that "nut sauce" product is ridiculously over priced for what it is. You can find the same stuff at Home Depot or auto parts stores for just a few dollars. Amazing how people make money marketing things for guitar players that are nothing more than the same stuff you can find in hardware/auto parts stores.

Well to be fair, Nut Sauce is different from the Teflon dry film lubricant you listed for 6 bucks. Big Bends developed a blend of teflon and silicone (your industrial stuff is silicone free) that's made for instruments in tiny spots in super tiny amounts, meant to cleanly go a long way, whereas the automotive/hardware stuff is for larger items to be sort of slathered and to be applied in larger amounts.

So while lube is lube and slippery is slippery... on a white corian Gibson nut (really don't need it on self-lubing Graphtech nuts and graphite, which IS what pencil lead is made out of lol, I really only use it on acoustic nuts, and my vintage Hags and Gibson) I'm also not putting pencil lead and vaseline. It'll look disgusting.. a purpose built product in hyper small quantities is just fine with me. Stuff takes forever to even get 1/2 of the way thru! And it works very well, which is why so many road techs keep it in their arsenals.


What about mixing dry teflon and silicone at home? :mrgreen:

I work in my own vehicles, so in my toolbox I have lubricants based on teflon, graphite, silver, silicone, lithium, silicone, copper, etc. Most of them produce similar results, though they are all for different mechanical applications. The dry teflon is the least messy one, so that's the one I use on my guitars.

All I am trying to say is that I don't think there's anything proprietary or innovative about the Nut Sauce brand other than application method (I use a q-tip with the dry teflon; works just fine). Also, I am not sure that there's anything substantially better about using a teflon/silicone blend vs just one or the other. For a guitar nut/bridge application either one would provide more than adequate lubrication.

I mean, in the large scheme of things the Nut Sauce brand is not going to ruin anybody financially haha. It's like, what, 20 bucks? Just saying, for the sake of the argument and from my experience, that dollar-per-dollar is crazy overpriced for what it is. That's all.

And yea...a big NO to the vaseline + pencil lead shavings. That's just one ugly mess; probably not a big deal on a black guitar nut but it would make a white/bone one look like crap!
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.

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Re: Slotting the Nut

Postby Bob77 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:27 pm

Bob77 wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:
Bob77 wrote:The whole "trick" about vaseline with pencil shavings is just silly. There are so many products that have graphite, teflon or whatever chemical you need for lubrication.

And that "nut sauce" product is ridiculously over priced for what it is. You can find the same stuff at Home Depot or auto parts stores for just a few dollars. Amazing how people make money marketing things for guitar players that are nothing more than the same stuff you can find in hardware/auto parts stores.

Well to be fair, Nut Sauce is different from the Teflon dry film lubricant you listed for 6 bucks. Big Bends developed a blend of teflon and silicone (your industrial stuff is silicone free) that's made for instruments in tiny spots in super tiny amounts, meant to cleanly go a long way, whereas the automotive/hardware stuff is for larger items to be sort of slathered and to be applied in larger amounts.

So while lube is lube and slippery is slippery... on a white corian Gibson nut (really don't need it on self-lubing Graphtech nuts and graphite, which IS what pencil lead is made out of lol, I really only use it on acoustic nuts, and my vintage Hags and Gibson) I'm also not putting pencil lead and vaseline. It'll look disgusting.. a purpose built product in hyper small quantities is just fine with me. Stuff takes forever to even get 1/2 of the way thru! And it works very well, which is why so many road techs keep it in their arsenals.


What about mixing dry teflon and silicone at home? :mrgreen:

I work in my own vehicles, so in my toolbox I have lubricants based on teflon, graphite, silver, silicone, lithium, silicone, copper, etc. Most of them produce similar results, though they are all for different mechanical applications. The dry teflon is the least messy one, so that's the one I use on my guitars.

I don't think there's anything proprietary or innovative about the Nut Sauce brand other than application method (I use a q-tip with the dry teflon; works just fine). Also, I am not sure that there's anything substantially better about using a teflon/silicone blend vs just one or the other. For a guitar nut/bridge application either one would provide more than adequate lubrication.

I mean, in the large scheme of things the Nut Sauce brand is not going to ruin anybody financially haha. It's like, what, 20 bucks? Just saying, for the sake of the argument, that dollar-per-dollar is crazy overpriced for what it is. That's all. Brilliant marketing for a guitar product for sure.

And yea...a big NO to the vaseline + pencil lead shavings. That's just one ugly mess; probably not a big deal on a black guitar nut but it would make a white/bone one look like crap!
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
Carvin amps: Legacy I w/Mesa 2X12 Rectifier speaker cab, AG100D.


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