Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

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dbone
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Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:13 pm

I am curios about multi-scale guitars but I am not really interested in the “ERG” scale lengths
It seems like Kiesel has jumped in big time into multi-scale but we have as of “yet” no option for a multiscale that explores the more comfortable scale length choices and for the life of me I don’t understand why.
Is anyone else interested in a 24.75-25.75 or something along those lines? Just curios...
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:23 pm

In today's live Facebook Q&A video, Jeff was asked specifically that question, basically about a multiscale that starts at Les Paul scale. He said there were no plans to release something like this. And I believe he said not that it would never happen, just that there are currently no plans. Which means, if there's enough demand, it's possible.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:29 pm

Well count me and my Visa in. If you build it they will come....I don’t have a Kiesel yet...
Last edited by dbone on Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:35 pm

Interestingly, if they kept the scale difference down to three quarters of an inch, or probably more likely something between that and 1/2 inch, then they could have a multiscale with a trem kinda like strandberg... where the entire scale difference is at the nut, and the bridge is just a standard Bridge.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:47 pm

The Kiesel Multi scales look really cool. Not to exaggerated, the zero fret looks like it’s in the right spot, they look like they would be comfortable to play.
The bridges they are using look good to me. I’m more interested in a hard tail...
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Nombrecomun » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:02 am

dbone wrote:I am curios about multi-scale guitars but I am not really interested in the “ERG” scale lengths
It seems like Kiesel has jumped in big time into multi-scale but we have as of “yet” no option for a multiscale that explores the more comfortable scale length choices and for the life of me I don’t understand why.
Is anyone else interested in a 24.75-25.75 or something along those lines? Just curios...


I'm with you on this. I have a 7 string multiscale Vader. Got it in November. Since then I've developed left hand pain. The stretches are too much for me on those lower strings and lower frets so I have to re-learn what I do on that guitar.

In one of those live sessions Jeff mentioned that he wouldn't do a smaller scale because, and I'm paraphrasing here, "humans are growing bigger so the direction is to go larger not smaller". While that has some disturbing implications on its own I find the notion wrongheaded. There are plenty of people around the world that are not 'large'. A guitar such as this would not be a fit for many people. Also consider that women are on average smaller than average men and Kiesel is effectively cutting themselves off from a certain market. It's quite limiting.

I love my Vader. It's my first Kiesel/Carvin. But I am limited on what I can do with it and I now pick it up with hesitation rather than joy. I would certainly warn anyone who is on the petite side like myself to stay away from those longer scale lengths.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby arahobob » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:31 am

spudmunkey wrote:Interestingly, if they kept the scale difference down to three quarters of an inch, or probably more likely something between that and 1/2 inch, then they could have a multiscale with a trem kinda like strandberg... where the entire scale difference is at the nut, and the bridge is just a standard Bridge.



Ormsby has a model like this.
Current Carvins:
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2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

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Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby mbardu » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:52 am

I would have 2 multiscale Kiesel right now if they were available as 24.5 > 25.5/26.5

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:00 am

mbardu wrote:I would have 2 multiscale Kiesel right now if they were available as 24.5 > 25.5/26.5


Jesus...a 2" fan? Someone's aching for punishment! :wink: :stir:

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby mbardu » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:34 am

spudmunkey wrote:
mbardu wrote:I would have 2 multiscale Kiesel right now if they were available as 24.5 > 25.5/26.5


Jesus...a 2" fan? Someone's aching for punishment! :wink: :stir:


24.5>25.5 on a six string is OK.
24.5>26 something is not that extreme either on a seven string.
I believe the PRS private stock is more than that.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:40 am

Ah, OK. I thought I read that it was .75" and I was going by your most-extreme, 24.5-26.5". A coworker bought some cheap ali express-type and it had a 3" fan, with the neutral at the 12th. It was ridiculous in every way. :lol:

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:56 pm

Seems to me that the overwhelming majority of electric guitars are between 24.75-25.5 scale range. So wouldn’t the most “potential” multiscale buyers reside somewhere in that comfort zone. Should not the piano logic Jeff used in the video apply to these more common scale lengths also?
I know they are trying to appeal to the ERG crowd which is fine, but they may be missing a even larger potential sales base. That’s just my two cents.
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby ilyti » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:47 pm

This would make multiscale much more appealing to me. I would be pleased with 25-26 on the 6, and 25-26.25 on the 7, leaving that 25.5 standard scale right in the middle instead of on the high E. Basically, from "fairly short to fairly long" would be much more comfortable than "from long to really long" as it is now. The overall feel would be like a 25.5 scale guitar, as opposed to the baritone-like feel of the current multies.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Koshchei » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:36 pm

If you're getting hand pain, you need to stop playing, let the pain subside and take a good hard look at your left hand technique. Chances are that you're bending too much at the wrist, which can cause all sorts of repetitive strain injuries.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby X1Glider » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:38 am

spudmunkey wrote:In today's live Facebook Q&A video, Jeff was asked specifically that question, basically about a multiscale that starts at Les Paul scale. He said there were no plans to release something like this. And I believe he said not that it would never happen, just that there are currently no plans. Which means, if there's enough demand, it's possible.

The problem I have with the live FB video Q&A sessions is that they occur when I'm working, as most everyone else here should be too. :naughty: Otherwise, I'd chime in on things. (But, I love that he does them. They provide great value to the customer..and entertainment. I have to catch them as a re-run.)

It's a real shame that the "Product Suggestions" area is gone. I understand why but also don't understand how they think FB is a better way garner information. There's no way to compile data (suggestions) on FB. Stuff just gets buried further and further down the virtual hole as each post is added. But at least with the "Product Suggestion" thread, a poll could have been used and only one user gets to vote per poll. The results are there for all to view and isn't limited to the fleeting glimpse of a post that FB is.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby X1Glider » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:54 am

Koshchei wrote:If you're getting hand pain, you need to stop playing, let the pain subside and take a good hard look at your left hand technique. Chances are that you're bending too much at the wrist, which can cause all sorts of repetitive strain injuries.

You're making assumptions that people who have been playing guitar forever and a day have bad technique when it was never a problem with a standard scale guitar.

It make more sense that the ergonomics of the fanned fretboard is the issue. The 1-1/2" fan spread is 3/4" to 1" much more than is really necessary for the purpose of balancing string tension from high to low. (I've seen the ridiculous 3" spreads and that is simply just stupid. Maybe it looks cool to some but it is nothing more than a "look at me and what I have" thing rather than truly being functional.) Now top off that 1-1/2" fan with an extended scale and it becomes a serious issue for many players. It really isn't as natural as many people make out, not at that spread.

But, in the end, the owner of the guitar had 10 days to decide if this system was really for him or not. Even if the pain wasn't there in that time period, he should have figured out if it was actually comfortable to play or if it was a nuisance in that time period.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Koshchei » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:02 am

Suit yourself.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby X1Glider » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:03 am

I am definitely interested in a shorter scale fanned fret guitar, but only if the fanned spread decreases. I'd have bought a few Kiesels by now if it was available. (I have 8 Carvin branded guitars but no Kiesels) So, there's about $10k that Kiesel has missed out on by only catering to the drop-tune crowd. I guarantee that standard scale players far outnumber the extended scale players.

I always play in concert pitch so I'm all for Kiesel building off of the standards that 90% of the rest of the guitarists in the world uses.

Start at either 24-3/4" or 25" on the high E and only fan to 25-1/2" on the low E. At this scale length, that's all that's needed to add more balance to the tension of the strings. As for low B, it shouldn't need to be any longer than 25-5/8" to 25-3/4".

So, my votes are for:

E-E and neutral 3rd fret:
24 3/4" - 25 1/2"
25'" - 25 5/8"

E - low B and neutral 5th or 6th fret:
24 3/4" - 25 5/8"
25" - 25 3/4"

Any of these are fine for also tuning down 1/2 step which a great many of my friends do. Any lower then E and B are too floppy for me. Any more than a 3/4" spread for 6 or 7 strings is unnecessary for what fanned fretting's purpose is. Beyond 3/4" you start risking pulling or pushing the strings sharp or flat by unnaturally trying to spread you fingers across a range too far. In the region closer to the neutral fret isn't an issue, it is an issue closer to the nut, especially on open chords where and dissonance is very noticeable.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Koshchei » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:16 am

Dean makes a 23.5 to 25.5 fanned 8 I think, if you haven’t tried one out. Good luck finding one though; they’re very very rare.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Greg Emm » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:36 am

Koshchei wrote:Dean makes a 23.5 to 25.5 fanned 8 I think, if you haven’t tried one out. Good luck finding one though; they’re very very rare.


The Rusty Cooley fanned fret model.


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