Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:55 am

It'd be an interesting guitar idea, probably good for ultra modern music, working in the studio, where the guitar is there in total support of Highly Compressed Everything Else and not featured way out front in the tradition of the rock songs of yesteryear, where the guitar player claims a "sound."

I'd imagine the sound would be a bit less identifiable viz model--albeit "good" would be based on pickups, bridge saddles, nut material, neck, etc--with a little less distinct "personality" along the lines that we're used to. A little less all the way in one direction or the other, and a meeting in the middle (kind of like the "compromise" scale of a PRS).

I think multiscale extreeeeeeemely necessary on an ERG guitar, because the 7 and-or 8th strings need far more tension to even be listenable (and one of the reasons I'm not a fan of ERG guitars is that I don't think that enough tension is provided even bumping up to the 27-8 inch zone.. on the 7th/8th strings they still sound flabby and unmusical to me). But on a regular six string I like making the choice between the "personality" of either a short/Gibson scale guitar, rubbery and slinky with bends that go to Mars and back with ease and bouncing rubber ball Page chords... or a Fender, with that klank and church-bell like attack and chime that Tele/Jazzmasters/Strats are so legendary for: tight, buzzsaw EVH style crunch chords and Hendrixy Red House/Bleeding Heart cleans.

What's really cool is doing mix and match against expectations--like a 25.5" Fender scale LP style guitar (Alan's HH1/2, Super Swede, Gibson LP Long Scale, etc), or on the opposite end, the original DC200 Stereo, one of the coolest superstrat style guitars that totally went next level with the idea... dropping to short Gibson scale, set neck, ebony board and double humbucker to create a total Les Paul Custom sound coming out of a strat bodied, all maple or all koa glued neck axe with splitters and a phase switch (and stereo, like the high end ES 335's).

Just one man's take on scale lengths and how to play around with mixing and matching.
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1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
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Koshchei
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Koshchei » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:58 am

Yeah — not sure how many they actually made though. 5? Less? Not exactly a huge seller.

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Greg Emm
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Greg Emm » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:10 am

Doesn't look like it was in production very long.

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dbone
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Which body style would you like to see the “standard range multi-scale” on first?
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spudmunkey
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:15 pm

My guess: Aries. Anything headless would need a new bridge, and my 2nd guess would be DC series, but the Aries MIGHT outsell it. Not sure on that, so it could go either way.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:58 pm

Yeah being that you can get the Aries with or without bevels it’s hard to argue against that model.
It’s flexible and looks good either way. I like the idea of a bolt on or set maybe the set-thru neck-crescent could be interesting.
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AE185 C22T/C22N/Piezo, AE185-12 H22T/H22N/Piezo
CT7M KL14B/KL14N, Bolt C22T/AP11/AP11, AC375, CL450, AC275K, SB5000 J99A pups

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gpbarnett
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby gpbarnett » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:24 pm

I've posted similar thoughts before, but here I go again.

I'd love for Kiesel to offer (option 50) custom scale lengths. The multiscale options Kiesel offers are appropriate for the majority, but there are always going to be some of us with specific/oddball requirements.

FretFind2D can generate output suitable for CAD/CNC. http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

Kiesel could pay someone to create a page with a simplified version of FretFind2D that can only generate options that fit existing neck blanks/CNC capabilities.

Two instruments that I want, and will eventually get if health and finances cooperate are:

30x32 4 string bass. The 34x36 that Kiesel offers is just way too long for me. I went to a one man shop to get a 5 string 32.5x34.2 with neutral 4th fret bass built (also wanted very custom inlays, which Kiesel doesn't do).

24x26 5 string guitar (same neck width as a 6 string) for 5ths tuning (DAEBF#).

Not as high of a priority, but I'd also like a multiscale 7th string. The 25.5x27 KIesel offers would work, but I'd prefer 24.6x27, as I use P4 tuning (BEADGCF) and would like a little bit less tension for my high C and F strings. This would make complicated chords harder to play, but since I mostly play power chords and small partial chords, I'm OK with that.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Nombrecomun » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:44 am

X1Glider wrote:
Koshchei wrote:If you're getting hand pain, you need to stop playing, let the pain subside and take a good hard look at your left hand technique. Chances are that you're bending too much at the wrist, which can cause all sorts of repetitive strain injuries.

You're making assumptions that people who have been playing guitar forever and a day have bad technique when it was never a problem with a standard scale guitar.

It make more sense that the ergonomics of the fanned fretboard is the issue. The 1-1/2" fan spread is 3/4" to 1" much more than is really necessary for the purpose of balancing string tension from high to low. (I've seen the ridiculous 3" spreads and that is simply just stupid. Maybe it looks cool to some but it is nothing more than a "look at me and what I have" thing rather than truly being functional.) Now top off that 1-1/2" fan with an extended scale and it becomes a serious issue for many players. It really isn't as natural as many people make out, not at that spread.

But, in the end, the owner of the guitar had 10 days to decide if this system was really for him or not. Even if the pain wasn't there in that time period, he should have figured out if it was actually comfortable to play or if it was a nuisance in that time period.


It definitely isn't technique in this case but I can understand how in some cases it can be. The bass end is too stretched out for me. I've had another 7 string at 25.5 scale for several years prior with no issue. Simple chords are ok for the most part but trying to do 3 note per string runs on the low end is troubling on the Vader. I think that's what did it for me.

Like I said, it's an issue of figuring out what I can do with the guitar. And 10 days is not enough, imo, to figure out what works or not but that's the risk we take as customers of this brand and I accept it. It's not like I can find another guitar player around that owns these guitars to try them out.

Regardless of the cause, Koschchei's suggestion of taking a break until the hand feels better is the right thing....even though it's the hardest thing to do!

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Koshchei
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Koshchei » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:26 am

27” shouldn’t be too difficult for anybody with proper technique (and no preexisting long-term or permanent disability); it’s literally just a cello scale.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby arahobob » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:29 pm

I had posted up a shot of the Ormsby I had mentioned, but alas it was deleted.

Seemed innocent enough - my apologies.
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dbone
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby dbone » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:52 pm

Well...that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It means somebody looked at this thread.
dbones Lefties
SH550 M22SD M22N
DC150 M22T/M22V, DC150 M22SD/M22N
DC400A, K12B/K12N, DC600 M22SD/M22V, DC800 A80B/A80N
AE185 C22T/C22N/Piezo, AE185-12 H22T/H22N/Piezo
CT7M KL14B/KL14N, Bolt C22T/AP11/AP11, AC375, CL450, AC275K, SB5000 J99A pups

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arahobob
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby arahobob » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:52 pm

dbone wrote:Well...that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It means somebody looked at this thread.


True, but there's plenty of other non-kiesel guitar photos on here.
I only posted it to show a multiscale w/ a trem.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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spudmunkey
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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:54 pm

No idea what the issue could have been. For some reason yesterday about 6 of my posts on Facebook were marked as spam., or... Maybe not... I got like 6 notifications, but they all seem to be about the same post, but I'm not a hundred percent sure that's how it works. :think:

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Nebulon » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:05 am

I think the shortest scale Kiesel offers is 25" no?

I'd love a 24.5" or 24.75" straight scale Kiesel in and of itself.

And, for the most part, I don't think you can have a non-multi-scale bridge with a multi-scale neck unless your 'parallel fret' is the bridge itself.

In fact, some have suggested or asked about having the bridge be the parallel fret so you can install a Floyd or even a tune-o-matic. That would kick the fan up something fierce on the low end of course...but on a 6 string, it wouldn't be as bad methinks.

And I also think Jeff is exactly correct about 1.5" being the largest scale range that retains playability and comfort. Any more than that and, to me, it seems more like an aesthetic choice over a functional one.

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Re: Anyone else curios about a Non erg multiscale

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 am

If we're registering interest, I think I'd not really have much want for it. I prefer the full flavor of either scale for a six string.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds


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