25.5 scale 8 string.

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shotaroriani2
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25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby shotaroriani2 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:57 pm

Is 25.5" scale an available option for 8 string (I'm looking into Aries 8 specifically)? I see that it's an option for a 7 string but I only see 27" or 26~27.5" multi-scale for 8 strings.

If 25.5 scale 8 string is a possibility, can the hardware actually accommodate for the thick strings that need to be used for the lower strings? Can the bridges/saddles be intonated properly?

What I want to do, is to set up the instrument in EAD - ADGBE tuning and essentially treat the bottom three strings as bass and the top five strings as the guitar to play solo-finger style guitar. The lack of tension in low strings won't bother me as long as the intonation can be set properly. (I have played my brother's 25.5" 7 string Carvin before, and the lack of tension in low B string did not bother me.) I am however, concerned about 27" scale length affecting the play-ability and the tone of the guitar as a whole. I want this instrument to sound like a killer bolt on guitar, and also have access to lower bass-range notes so I can play solo gigs without the need for a bass player. I don't want to sacrifice the tone of the guitar or the playability for the slight improvement in the tone/tension of the bottom two strings. (assuming that Drop E on the 8th strings on 25.5" scale is manageable with thick enough strings that can be put on and intonated).

If you have any other thoughts regarding 8 strings/scale length, please share them as I am still learning about 8 string instruments.

Thanks!

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arahobob
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby arahobob » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:57 pm

Short scale 8s sound / feel like garbage on the low end. IMHO.
I can tolerate 26.5 tuned to standard.

The multiscale would definitely be my pick for an 8. I don't like the feel of the high strings at all on a straight 27" scale.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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ilyti
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby ilyti » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:22 pm

shotaroriani2 wrote:What I want to do, is to set up the instrument in EAD - ADGBE tuning and essentially treat the bottom three strings as bass and the top five strings as the guitar to play solo-finger style guitar. The lack of tension in low strings won't bother me as long as the intonation can be set properly. (I have played my brother's 25.5" 7 string Carvin before, and the lack of tension in low B string did not bother me.) I am however, concerned about 27" scale length affecting the play-ability and the tone of the guitar as a whole. I want this instrument to sound like a killer bolt on guitar, and also have access to lower bass-range notes so I can play solo gigs without the need for a bass player. I don't want to sacrifice the tone of the guitar or the playability for the slight improvement in the tone/tension of the bottom two strings. (assuming that Drop E on the 8th strings on 25.5" scale is manageable with thick enough strings that can be put on and intonated).

If you have any other thoughts regarding 8 strings/scale length, please share them as I am still learning about 8 string instruments.

Thanks!


For what you're describing, getting a bass player, or a good keyboard player is your best bet. Multiscale 8 would be your second best ;) I like my low Bb on my 7 string, but I would not go any lower. I have a 62 on there and the saddle on the hipshot bridge is all the way back, spring removed. It would be flopping from floor to ceiling if I tuned it down to E.

Thing is, with any scale length to accommodate that kind of range, there will be some sacrifice somewhere. With 25.5 you sacrife some tone/tention on the low strings, and with 27 you sacrifice some playing comfort and tone on the high strings. Multiscale is intended to minimize those problems.

Also, no 25.5 8 string is offered by Kiesel at the moment.

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toejam
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby toejam » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:07 pm

25.5" scale is too short for an 8, and Kiesel does not offer that scale on them, anyway. My first 8-string was an ESP/LTD with 25.5" scale. I put a 76 gauge string on for the low F# and it was floppy and would not intonate completely perfect even with the saddle all the way back. Though, Hipshot does make a shorter saddle to help compensate for better intonation, but not sure if that would work completely on the shorter scale.
My Carvin DC800 is pretty awesome with the 27" scale and an 80 or 82 gauge string on there for standard F# or Drop E.

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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:59 pm

I totally agree with Toejam, 25.5 is way too short for an eight string.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

shotaroriani2
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby shotaroriani2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 pm

Thanks for the input, guys.

Do high strings sound much different in 27" scale compared to 25.5 scale, or does it mostly affect the feel? I don't think I will have too much problem with high-string tension since I am used to playing .11~ set and acoustics, but it would turn me off if the high-strings on 27" sound shrill or something.

The only reason why I would go for multi-scale over 27" would be if it significantly improves the tone of the high strings. I am just not 100% convinced how much better multi-scale would be, especially since I will have to give up on some of the other options (e.g. reverse head stock, engraved truss-rod cover, fewer aftermarket pickup options etc.) to get a multi-scale over 27"

Does anyone have any experience with this?

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arahobob
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby arahobob » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:33 pm

shotaroriani2 wrote:Thanks for the input, guys.

Do high strings sound much different in 27" scale compared to 25.5 scale, or does it mostly affect the feel? I don't think I will have too much problem with high-string tension since I am used to playing .11~ set and acoustics, but it would turn me off if the high-strings on 27" sound shrill or something.

The only reason why I would go for multi-scale over 27" would be if it significantly improves the tone of the high strings. I am just not 100% convinced how much better multi-scale would be, especially since I will have to give up on some of the other options (e.g. reverse head stock, engraved truss-rod cover, fewer aftermarket pickup options etc.) to get a multi-scale over 27"

Does anyone have any experience with this?



I liked the tone of the strings on the 27"scale. Big time.
I liked the feel on the low end just fine.
I absolutely despised the feel on the high (g,b,e) end. The tension bugged me to know end. I use all kinds of strings too (9s- 12s). This was different. 27" was not a good fit for me.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Doctor Turn
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:05 pm

You would HATE a vintage Acoustic Black Widow (the company, not "acoustic" as in not an electric.. and not the 25.5" scale remakes by Eastwood). 27" scale 6 string. One of the most distinctive clean sounds on earth, like bursts of glass breaking.

Zappa languidly unwinding some bizarre runs on his Black Widow, with Warren Cuccurullo on rhythm, and Colaiuta letting off bandeleros in the background. Love this stuff, but it's an acquired taste (the strange construction of the improv, not the tone of the axe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMgH2vZSds

(Black Widow in his hands)
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Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Koshchei
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby Koshchei » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:04 pm

Multiscale improves the tone of the high strings.

shotaroriani2
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby shotaroriani2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:10 pm

Well, it sounds like I'll have to go with the multi-scale.

I still probably have another 6 months or so till I can order one anyway. Maybe they'll add new options in that time :)

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toejam
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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby toejam » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:15 am

I don't think the tone is bad. I usually use 10s, but I use a balanced set of 9s to keep the bending easier on the high strings. Either the D'Addario NYXL 9-80 set or a custom LaBella set of the same gauge with sometimes an 82. It's 9, 12, 16, 24, 32, 44, 60, 80/82.

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Re: 25.5 scale 8 string.

Postby Jack'O'Licious » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:20 am

As stated before, Multiscale is the way to go even in your situation. I have a DCM8 and its very comfortable on the high strings and the tone is not sacrificed at all. It truly serves its purpose.
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2017 DCM8, 2016 A7H

Other's:
Cheap Peavey Strat, Jackson Dinky 7 with BKP Juggernauts, 2017 Dingwall NG-2 5 string, 2017 Warwick RB Corvette 6 string


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