Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

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CudBucket
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Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby CudBucket » Mon May 07, 2018 2:52 pm

Hello all,

I don't post much but lately I've been playing my Vader and Bolt a lot. What stands are you all using for your Vaders? Mine is a V7. By this point, I'd imagine we already know which stands won't attack the finish over time. Is the Hercules Mini the way to go or is there something else out there?

Image

Thanks!
Dave

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Koshchei
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby Koshchei » Mon May 07, 2018 4:11 pm

Nice call on the Mini Mark!

bracky72
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby bracky72 » Tue May 08, 2018 4:54 am

K&M stands are what you are looking for. The best in my opinion.

maxpower
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby maxpower » Tue May 08, 2018 6:59 pm

I don't have a Vader but have a CL7 and I like my Nordic Essentials stand
CT4M, DC127, Bolt (kit), CL7

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ZooHead
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby ZooHead » Wed May 16, 2018 1:42 pm

Can someone explain this problem? I have spent a lot of money on stands,
and the all come with a warning sticker about not being
used for guitars with a nitrocellulose finish.

I don't think I have any bodies with noc but Warmouth uses it on there gloss and satin necks.
What if I stick an Ernie Ball microfiber cloth between the neck and the rubber?
Will that help or will the cloth mess up the finish?

For some reason I don't think it will be a problem on a satin noc finish, but I haven't a clue.

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spudmunkey
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby spudmunkey » Wed May 16, 2018 1:49 pm

With Kiesel's polyester, it shouldn't have any issues with any material I've ever heard of.

The issues that can arise are due to the nitrocellulose finish on some guitars and certain types of rubber that intereact with each other. It can be as minimal as hazing on the clear guitar finish, to as severe as chemical-burn-looking marks, and melted rubber.

For example, here someone used tape to hold a tag to the guitar. The adhesive ate into the nitro:
Image


Here's damage from a vinyl strap that was held against a nitro-finished acoustic in a case:
Image


Here's spot from a vinyl cushion on a stand:
Image

You should be just fine with a cloth between the guitar and the stand, but there still could potentially be some "off gassing" issues.

"The culprits in this case are the plasticizers in vinyl. Pure vinyl would be very hard and brittle. To make it soft and pliable, they add plasticizers, essentially solvents that partially dissolve the vinyl, making it soft. The plasticizers are typically liquids, about like sewing machine oil. In service they can leach out, contaminating any nearby surface.

It does not have to be direct contact, they can also evaporate and then condense on nearby surfaces. Ever notice that oily, dusty, cloudy film that builds up on the back of your car\'s windshield? That\'s the oily plasticizers from your vinyl dashboard condensing on the glass, then collecting ai rborne dust.

This leaching-out of the plasticizers is also bad for the vinyl. As it loses the plasticizers, it becomes hard and brittle, and eventually cracks, as vinyl is infamous for.

The bottom line is that you need to keep vinyl out of heat, and also to avoid keeping any sensitive finishes in a closed environment containing vinyl. Contact is bad, but even having vinyl inside a case (but not in direct contact) could still cause problems."

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ZooHead
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby ZooHead » Wed May 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Thanks spudmunkey, that's good to hear. Most of my stands have a foam like material, but one old one has surgical tubing.

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spudmunkey
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby spudmunkey » Wed May 16, 2018 4:22 pm

ZooHead wrote:Thanks spudmunkey, that's good to hear. Most of my stands have a foam like material, but one old one has surgical tubing.


I'll note that not all foam is safe. I've seen a nasty one from one of those one-piece garden/tool/garage hanger hook things. OK, so I saw it on TV, so who knows how true it was, but it was an old semi-hollow or hollow body that had been hanging for, literally, years, untouched. They pulled it off the hook, and the black foam stretched like hot taffy*. It made me really nervous about which wall hooks to buy, so I did a bunch of poking around before I settled on the ones I bought (String Swing).

*Hot Taffy was the name of my acid electro jazz neo-industrial dada funk trio in the late 90s. No it wasn't.
Last edited by spudmunkey on Mon May 21, 2018 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ZooHead
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby ZooHead » Thu May 17, 2018 3:39 am

spudmunkey wrote:Hot Taffy was the name of my acid electro jazz neo-industrial dada funk trio in the late 90s. No it wasn't.
:lol:

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UnexplodedCow
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon May 21, 2018 7:55 am

I like to think of myself as the stand for my Vader. What better place for it?
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tbonesullivan
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby tbonesullivan » Mon May 21, 2018 3:03 pm

Surgical tubing is usually close to pure latex rubber, and will readily react with Nitrocellulose. One thing to remember is that Nitro finishes ALSO have solvents and other volatile compounds in them, and slowly outgas over time. This is why 30 year old nitro finishes are thin and getting tiny cracks in them: a lot has floated into the air.


Carvin guitars, as stated before, currently use UV-cured polyester, and before that it was polyurethane. Polymerized finishes are pretty much invincible when it comes to "normal" solvents that would be in the vinyl, dyed leather, latex, etc. I don't think there is a stand on the market that would be able to chemically react with a polyester or polyurethane finish.
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UnexplodedCow
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby UnexplodedCow » Tue May 22, 2018 9:11 am

tbonesullivan wrote:Surgical tubing is usually close to pure latex rubber, and will readily react with Nitrocellulose. One thing to remember is that Nitro finishes ALSO have solvents and other volatile compounds in them, and slowly outgas over time. This is why 30 year old nitro finishes are thin and getting tiny cracks in them: a lot has floated into the air.


Carvin guitars, as stated before, currently use UV-cured polyester, and before that it was polyurethane. Polymerized finishes are pretty much invincible when it comes to "normal" solvents that would be in the vinyl, dyed leather, latex, etc. I don't think there is a stand on the market that would be able to chemically react with a polyester or polyurethane finish.


I can confirm the latex/nitro finish issue. I hung my old Guild on a wall hanger with latex tubing whenever I wasn't playing it. The end result: the latex ate through/displaced the finish where it hung, right down to the bare wood. I was not happy, but figure the marks just tell more history of the guitar that survived being dropped and having a clock fall on it.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

ted
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby ted » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:40 pm

This past week I ordered a String Swing adjustable horizontal wall mount for my JBV6 Vader. I wanted to free up some floor space and get away from floor stands. I highly recommend these. I mounted my Vader on the wall and it looks awesome. I used lead anchors and mounted the unit very securely into the brick wall and the thing is rock solid. These fit the contours of both the Vader and the HH2 very well. I ordered a second one so I can mount my HH2 directly above my Vader this week.

I dig the aesthetics of the angled/horizontal/playing position display. I placed some of my other guitars with headstocks into the String Swing and they look great too. I got the “thin profile” string swing (they make a thicker version) for acoustics— but even my AC375 fits perfectly into the thin profile version.

From the pics I’ve seen, it looks like Kiesel uses these same mounts to display the headless guitars in their showroom.
HH2 -Tobacco Burst
DC127-- Electric Green
AC375--Emerald Green
JBV6--Ferrari Red

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spudmunkey
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:52 pm


ted
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Re: Once Again, Vader Guitar Stands

Postby ted » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Yep, spud, that’s the one. My second String Swing should arrive tomorrow and I’ll get it mounted for my HH2 in a couple of days. I’ll try to post some photos of the result.
HH2 -Tobacco Burst

DC127-- Electric Green

AC375--Emerald Green

JBV6--Ferrari Red


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