Bring Back the Bolt +

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ghostryder
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Tue May 29, 2018 8:58 pm

Thank you for clarifying the binding options 8) I was a bit confused on it. I think even if the builder lacks it a direct call would allow BBE-- and from the photos they really make a marked difference on how an unbeveled Aries looks. I think without rounded edges the BBE is pretty essental otherwise it just looks like a block of wood :shock:

I've been back and forth on clear or translucent finishes. I want the wood to show but some of the burst trans out there are awful pretty like the above photo shows. I've certainly lost some of my bias against the aries from these replies. Extremely helpful as I think I got maybe on more Axe buy left --- I've mostly been fender strat---and though they are okay I don't think I've ever bought one that didn't need a trip to fix some fret buzz or other fault- and the more modern ones aren't even as good as the 70s models I've played most.

So at one time i was set on the contour 66 but was broke at that time---when that vanished I looked at G&L --- the hype being leo went back and fixed some things....mainly the tremelo ---but researching this G&L's are probmatic if you need a part...like a neck---unlike a fender or even a Kiesel one would be easily available- not so with the G&L---

then there's the Suhr---very nice at $1995 but again it is pretty much like a bolt. A strat copy. i can't drop 2k on a guitar with a pickquard covering 90 percent of the front wood and I've always hated the jack position. heck it was worse in my younger years fliping the strings on right handed strats and that darn jack aiming to mess with where i rested my hand.

I'll have to let all this new info purculate in my old brain for a while -- but I can imagine a build where the aries could look pretty sweet.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ElfDude » Wed May 30, 2018 6:50 am

Watching this discussion is making me feel blessed to own both an Aries and a Contour 66.
Also grateful that my C66 is one of the older ones with the deeper contours. 8)
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby CudBucket » Wed May 30, 2018 7:56 am

For me the Bolt is not a strat copy. I have a strat and they're not the same. To me the Bolt is a super strat. But I love that it feels like a modern guitar and still has some vintage vibe going on in the way it looks.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Wed May 30, 2018 9:59 am

Oh I'm sure in practice it's a super strat---I just look at anything with a pickquard as a strat copy--even the Suhr-

You got to lose the pickguard to get that "that's primo" vibe. It's why a Lexus has leather and not plastic. That pickguard just screams "Ford pinto" in my mind.

Also kiesel has really up'd the hardware offering. Back when you had to choose from a Floyd or wilk trem and the AP11 or S60s--the bolt was in the bunch but now with evertunes, Hipshot tremos and Lithium pickups --which may not be available on the bolt--I'm not sure- you've just got to let the full face of the wood on the quitar to show. now your in Super Strat Land or even Killer strat land.

The only downside, Kiesel being California based-- we are paying at least 25 percent more than we should to cover the highest taxed and regulated State on the planet. I think Carvin audio might even be around had they been based in more friendly buisness state like texas or Tennessee. But as long as the quality is there I can live with it.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed May 30, 2018 10:43 am

Really, to qualify as a super strat the thing should have humbuckers... has little to do with ergs or shape, it's the fact that the thing can get thick and ferocious.. read Eddie Van Halen. That single PAF transformed Strats forever.
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Wed May 30, 2018 11:20 am

And the industry. seems whether you look at a Schector, a Jackson or Charvel it's shredder material often with not a single coil to be seen. I play the neck pickup mostly and for me that must be a single coil. Some would stick a humbucker there in a HSH setup with coil splitters but a split humbucker just isn't a single coil to my ear. Putting one in the bridge position, a position I've never used in a single coil version--adds some variety for sure if I'm doing some Zepplin or whatnot so I perfer HSS .

Nothing wrong with van halen or a shredder--it's just not what i play and the industry seems to think everyone plays that way now.

Being left handed I frequent Jerry's left hand guitars---which is about 150 miles from my location. And mt recent browse I spotted a left handed aries for $599. It looks to be equipped with 2 humbuckers and there's a weird line of 3 toggle switches above the volume and tone controls--- God knows what they do. the website hasn't any specks--just some photos--very nice photos in fact. it's unbeveled and the edges look rounded in a Trans Blue finish.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/97189459@ ... 3216057491

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed May 30, 2018 11:36 am

btw I've always said that while EVH was screwing around in his proverbial mother's basement, he could have just gone to Carvin in 1976 and bought this bad boy:

Image

You could of course buy it without the Big bridge... what's interesting is prior to this year, they made it with the AP6 single coils, rather than a typical strat single with pole slug mags:

Image

Now these AP6 single coils (for some reason the ad calls them humbuckers, which they most def were not.. they did thereafter come out with the genuine APH6, which is the guitar up top, with just another row of hum cancelling poles) are not really P90's,they were ceramic pickups and definitely less midrangey than their Gibson counterparts... but they still had a nice thick classic rock, nice-output klankiness. So they conceived these Strat type guitars with Gibsony style electronics from the start... definitely one of the very first "superstrat" style guitars on planet earth.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed May 30, 2018 11:54 am

ghostryder wrote:a split humbucker just isn't a single coil to my ear.


Way different construction. It's like the dif between a P90 and a strat single: the humbucker has regular screws and/or nonmag slugs for poles, and bar mags running beneath at the base, whereas strat singles have no bar mags and the pole slugs themselves constitute individual mags for each string.

The one P90-esque (at least by appearance) pup I know of from Gibson that uses that slug mag technology are the extremely rare, but great, and expensive, "Alnico" or "Staple" pickup that was used on the neck for what is probably my favorite LP Custom of all time, the 55-6 Black Beauty:
Image

If anyone has a spare 20-30 grand laying around that they can't find a project for, please send a PM!

Nice closeup:
Image
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby Cynical » Wed May 30, 2018 12:53 pm

Notably, Seymour Duncan makes a humbucker with magnetic polepieces, the SH-3 Stag Mag. Duncan claims it was specifically designed to give a true single-coil sound when split.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Thu May 31, 2018 6:22 am

I haven't tried one but I think if the claims were true it'd change the industry. Or perhaps not----afterall almost all of them will pop a single coil in the middle position with a humbucker at the neck and bridge as their default stock model. even the aries is set up like this in the builder. To me that's just crazy. If your really shooting to provide versatility that single coil needs to be in the neck position. No named player used the center position on a strat regularily---almost everyone used the neck position be it Hendrix, David Gilmour, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Trower....etc etc.

Now if your eddie Van halen sure...which only makes my argument more obvious...the industry is too focused on just one catagory of player. That too makes little sense to me. no way is most players heavy Metal or shredder players. Blues, Rock, Jazz, even retro Rock or new age, country and classical all would want something different and thier numbers have to be greater or at least on a par with them.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby spudmunkey » Thu May 31, 2018 6:32 am

I do get your point about what is and isn't available on the Builder, but both elfdude and I can testify that you can get a single coil in the neck of the Aries was just a phone call! :mrgreen:

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby CudBucket » Thu May 31, 2018 8:00 am

ghostryder wrote:You got to lose the pickguard to get that "that's primo" vibe. It's why a Lexus has leather and not plastic. That pickguard just screams "Ford pinto" in my mind.


I have to disagree. There's nothing "Ford Pinto" about my Bolt or any of my Suhrs. Different strokes I guess.

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby spudmunkey » Thu May 31, 2018 8:15 am

i kinda see a pickguard in the same way as I see engine covers on nice cars.

Is it's necessary? No, but it's meant to hide stuff that would otherwise look "messy". It's usually made of plastic. But, it's also a decorative element that looks nice to many. There are always those who prefer the look of an engine bay not covered in plastic, even if the panels are easily removable with a coupe of screws.

And then you also have the rediculousness that was the Hyundai Tiburon which had a cover over the engine facing the wrong way, making it look like it was a v6 for a rear wheel drive car, when it was really a 4cyl in a FWD car. :lol:

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Thu May 31, 2018 11:57 am

Lol. Well the Hyundai is a Korean made car. Although the engineering is done in Japan. But yeah it's a subjective thing to the individual. Some say using Basewood in a suhr is crazy at the price while others claim for sound basewood is actually the best pick. in either case like the pickguard you don't see translucent finishes on them either. One could argue either side depending on one's taste. :D

With the Strat one has to also keep in mind Leo fender wasn't a player. Room for improvement is apparant. Lots of room actually. :rockon:

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:28 am

I have had two Bolt+ guitars, and an original (2005 year) C66T with the deeper forearm cut.

Between the three, the forearm cuts were all the same. I ended up liking the super-heavy blue Bolt+ more (with HSH pickups), and sold off the C66, though I admit that purple flame with "binding" effect looked very classy. The last I heard, and I believe it was in a video, was that the C66 forearm cut was decreased due to an excessive amount of tops cracking when bending them into place. I can believe that, given the thickness of the top, combined with the angles involved. I don't know if they steamed the tops into place, but I did see a video of the otherwise flat wood being clamped down onto a Vader with no steam, and that made no sense, since steaming would allow the wood to warp into place much more easily without cracking. As it's not structural, it wouldn't matter in strength terms, either.

I totally agree that a pickguard just uglies up a guitar. I recently traded off for a Gretsch 5120 that has a clear pickguard; I like that. It's unobtrusive, and I get to see some great, lightly figured, grainy orange-stained maple under it. To me, that's classy.

As for single coils in the neck position; I love a good single in the neck, but have really enjoyed a splittable humbucker, too. The M22N or V will split very nicely, and provide a great single coil sound. Is it exactly like a Strat? No. It's similar. But, I'm not looking to recreate anyone else's sound. More possibilities and versatility. Function over form, though I don't mind how some things look. My opinion doesn't matter in the end, the same as everyone else's, though I follow it, and it will influence me in what I purchase.
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:03 am

UnexplodedCow wrote: I did see a video of the otherwise flat wood being clamped down onto a Vader with no steam, and that made no sense, since steaming would allow the wood to warp into place much more easily without cracking. As it's not structural, it wouldn't matter in strength terms, either.


They actually do steam at the area where the wood bends. I think they try to minimize adding too much moisture into the wood, so they don't throw the whole thing into a steamer and then back in to the drying "ovens". I've seen a video where they put what LOOKED LIKE (I'm positive it wasn't) a curling iron wrapped in a wet washcloth, which dampened the wood at the start of the forearm bend. Some manufacturers cut kerf cuts on the underside of the tops to get them to bend more easily, and I kinda wish Kiesel did something like that so the forearm contours could be a more gradual slope. Even as is, with the fairly pronounced bend where then the contour continues *mostly* straight/flat instead of one long gradual curve, they still get cracks in the tops at the bend. And that's even though their tops are also thinner now than they were when the C66 was launched. :think:

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:15 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:I have had two Bolt+ guitars, and an original (2005 year) C66T with the deeper forearm cut.

Between the three, the forearm cuts were all the same. I ended up liking the super-heavy blue Bolt+ more (with HSH pickups), and sold off the C66, though I admit that purple flame with "binding" effect looked very classy. The last I heard, and I believe it was in a video, was that the C66 forearm cut was decreased due to an excessive amount of tops cracking when bending them into place. I can believe that, given the thickness of the top, combined with the angles involved. I don't know if they steamed the tops into place, but I did see a video of the otherwise flat wood being clamped down onto a Vader with no steam, and that made no sense, since steaming would allow the wood to warp into place much more easily without cracking. As it's not structural, it wouldn't matter in strength terms, either.

I totally agree that a pickguard just uglies up a guitar. I recently traded off for a Gretsch 5120 that has a clear pickguard; I like that. It's unobtrusive, and I get to see some great, lightly figured, grainy orange-stained maple under it. To me, that's classy.

As for single coils in the neck position; I love a good single in the neck, but have really enjoyed a splittable humbucker, too. The M22N or V will split very nicely, and provide a great single coil sound. Is it exactly like a Strat? No. It's similar. But, I'm not looking to recreate anyone else's sound. More possibilities and versatility. Function over form, though I don't mind how some things look. My opinion doesn't matter in the end, the same as everyone else's, though I follow it, and it will influence me in what I purchase.


Great post. This is turning into quite an enjoyable discussion :woot:

I think your argument about split coils is valid. Especially concidering the default bolt+ came with 2 humbuckers. You certainly can get in the ballpark of a strat but keep in mind that is true of any other guitar that isn't a strat. A suhr or a Leo Fender designed G&L doesn't exactly sound like a strat. But when you split a humbucker the dynamics change quite differently from a single coil...it's hard to put into words but the response, resonance or whatnot is just too off kilter for me.

But that doesn't mean you can't do it or do it well. One player I enjoy basically uses gibsons almost always. Warren Haynes, he does own a strat but even if he's covering Pink Floyd he's up there with his gibson as seen on the album 'with a little help from my friends'. You can watch utube vids of him - usually with Gov't Mule- doing quite a lot of stuff that should be done on a strat with his Gibson...even Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs. I actually like his covers more than Gov't mules songs.

But if you can get a single coil in that neck position I'm putting it there... because sadly...I'm not warren Haynes :mrgreen:

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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ElfDude » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:48 am

Might as well throw in a photo of my three Carvin/Kiesel Bolt-ons...
Unfortunately, none of them are the Bolt+

Image
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
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DWG
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby DWG » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:57 am

Hi ElfDude,

What is the name of the stain/color on the bolt guitar in the center?

DWG

ghostryder
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Re: Bring Back the Bolt +

Postby ghostryder » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:08 pm

The grain really pops on that. Having the truss rod cover the same as the fingerboard is also sweet. never knew you could do that. Great color combos on all of them. :coolpics:


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