Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

USA Custom Shop Acoustic and Electric Guitars

Moderators: Kevio, ElfDude, JesseM, RockCrue, soundchick, ChrisH, peb, Mike Jones, Bundy

User avatar
Prevention
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 680
Joined: May 2009

Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby Prevention » Sat May 19, 2018 8:56 am

One of the benefits of getting a fanfret/multiscale instrument is the "balanced tension" it offers due to its design.


But is this true regardless of string gauge that you use? After all, pitch, length, and tension are all tied together and doesn't it make sense that .9's to 52 (7 string) would "balance" the same as 9's to 60 or even 64


Shouldn't a balanced tension be the goal of an instrument that is designed for a more balanced approach? What do you do for your fanfret instruments? Or even non multiscale instruments. You might think I'm over thinking things but check out this picture:

Image

You're gonna tell me you can't feel a 2-3lb difference? Don't tell me it doesn't matter when you have people talking about wood changing the sound of electric guitars and such ;)



I need help finding a good build. a "balanced" tension gauge looks like a set of .09, .12, .15. 22. 30. 40. 54 ish but even then there's about a lb+ of difference between some strings. I doubt such a pack is for sale, however.

User avatar
ilyti
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 594
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Iqaluit, NU

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby ilyti » Sat May 19, 2018 1:41 pm

The goal of the multiscale is not to remove the tension "jumps" in a standard string set completely. It is simply to increase tension on the low strings, relative to a standard or short scale, without increasing tension too much on the higher strings.

That said, it does seem to mitigate the problem somewhat. A standard string set such as 9-42 will still be a little "off balance"; You will still see the jumps in tension from B to G and from G to D, in fact that jumps will be greater. However, because the scale is significantly longer on say the low B compared to the D the tension will feel more balanced than it would on a straight scale.
Last edited by ilyti on Sat May 19, 2018 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TylerOBwan
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2018

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby TylerOBwan » Sat May 19, 2018 1:45 pm

In addition to a multiscale's goal being to have more tension on the lower strings without sacrificing the tension on the thinner strings, I use Wired Guitarist's String Drop strings, which are wound to have more balanced string tension per string in comparison to each other, and I love them. Try those if you get a chance. It makes playing my AM7 extremely fun and comfortable, and they sound killer too!

User avatar
UnexplodedCow
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1179
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Omnipresence nearly achieved!

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sat May 19, 2018 3:20 pm

If the human finger can feel a few thousandths of an inch, it'll feel a couple pounds difference in force. That's like asking if someone can feel the tension difference from changing a 9-42 set to 10-46, or 11-52. It's a pretty obvious difference, and some people are accustomed to a specific string feel. It's kind of asking why different fret sizes exist; some like low, some like wide, some like train tracks.

Beyond that, I'll parrot what the other people said, and note that it increases tension on the lower strings, which is helpful especially in lower tunings (which seem to be all the rage as of late).
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

User avatar
Prevention
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 680
Joined: May 2009

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby Prevention » Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 am

TylerOBwan wrote:In addition to a multiscale's goal being to have more tension on the lower strings without sacrificing the tension on the thinner strings, I use Wired Guitarist's String Drop strings, which are wound to have more balanced string tension per string in comparison to each other, and I love them. Try those if you get a chance. It makes playing my AM7 extremely fun and comfortable, and they sound killer too!



I'm interested in getting these, however it seems like these strings are built for a non fanned fret instrument? Because the design of these strings is tight on the low end and loose on the high end (which is the same design on the guitar itself) plus I tune standard so it seems like it would be really tight

Alcathous
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 29
Joined: May 2016

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby Alcathous » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:51 pm

I have a multiscale question.

If you play music with standard tuning only (needing the open palm muted low E and A string) and if you like heavy gauge strings, is there any reason to get multiscale?

I like strings with a lot of tension on them, but 27" and a 0.052 low E string, won't that just put a lot of strain on the neck?

Then again, for me having a baritone guitar would be kind of cool. I don't want a 7 string, but a guitar with a lower B string and lacking the top E string, that would justify getting a new guitar, because it is different. And it would still allow me to play 100% of the rhythm guitar. But multiscale is multiscale, not baritone. If I tune to BEADF#B, for example, then I would have a very loose high B string. right?

User avatar
UnexplodedCow
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1179
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Omnipresence nearly achieved!

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:20 am

Multi-scale can help chord positioning and ergonomics, especially in the upper fret access. It's a personal preference thing. I've wanted to spend more time with one and see if I'd really enjoy it, but haven't had the time to really try one out long term. If you're happy with the tension and ergonomics of perpendicular frets and overall same scale length with the heavier strings, there is no reason to really switch.

As for keeping in standard tuning, the benefit may be that you can use smaller strings and keep the tension the same. as if it were a traditional scale design. Regarding neck strain; I wouldn't worry about it. Carvin/Kiesel necks are usually very solid, especially so with multi-piece, and now using carbon fiber reinforcement rods (they used to have steel and later graphite, but the carbon rod versions seem stronger).

If you go headless, that translates into more linear (less bending) strain, since there's no real break angle over the nut, and headstock to pull against, plus less overall tension due to strings being shorter (no real overhang at the bridge and nothing at the headstock end). A headless, to me, feels lighter in tension than a traditional design because of this. It's an efficient design, and tuning stability is fantastic, so I always recommend them if one is not worried about looking traditional.

Just some thoughts for you.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.

User avatar
Nemesis
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Colorado

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby Nemesis » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:53 pm

8- String: 26” - 27.5” Multi-scale, .2143 per string space
7- String: 25.5” - 27” Scale .20” per string space
6-String: 25.5” - 26.5” Scale .25” per string space

I run NYXL’s on all my CL’s.
6-String:
1. 25.5” - E - .010p - 16.22 lbs.
2. 25.7” - B - .0135p - 16.86 lbs.
3. 25.9” - G - .018w - 16.54 lbs
4. 26.1” - D - .024w - 16.48 lbs
5. 26.3” - A - .034w - 16.49 lbs
6. 26.5” - D - .050w - 16.87 lbs

1. E .010p - 16.22 lbs.
2. B .013p - 16.86 lbs.
3. G .018w - 16.54 lbs
4. D .024w - 16.48 lbs
5. A .034w - 16.49 lbs
6. E .044w - 16.86 lbs

7-Strings:
1. 25.5” - E - .010p - 16.22 lbs.
2. 25.7” - B - .0135p - 16.92lbs.
3. 25.9” - G - .018w - 16.60 lbs
4. 26.1” - D - .024w - 16.60 lbs
5. 26.3” - A - .032w - 16.67 lbs
6. 26.5” - D - .044w - 17.09 lbs
7. 27.0” - A - .066w - 17.52 lbs

1. 25.50” - E - .010p - 16.22 lbs.
2. 25.75” - B - .0135p - 16.92lbs.
3. 26.0” - G - .018w - 16.60 lbs.
4. 26.25” - D - .024w - 16.60 lbs
5. 26.50” - A - .032w - 16.67 lbs
6. 26.75” - E - .044w - 17.09 lbs
7. 27.00” - B - .058w - 17.04 lbs

8-String:
1. 26.000” - E - .010p - 16.22 lbs.
2. 26.2142” - B - .0135p - 16.86 lbs.
3. 26.4285” - G - .016p - 16.54 lbs
4. 26.6428” - D - .023w - 16.48 lbs
5. 26.8571” - A - .031w - 16.49 lbs
6. 27.0714” - D - .042w - 16.87 lbs
7. 27.2857” - A - .056w - 16.87 lbs
8. 27.5000” - E - .076w - 16.87 lbs
Guitars:
'92 Ibanez 540SLTD
'14 Schecter Banshee Elite (Prototype)
‘17 Kiesel CL-7 Arctic Flame
‘17 Kiesel CL-6 Fire Quilt
‘18 Kiesel CL-8 Earth Burl

Amps & Cabs:
Randall Thrasher 120 / Custom Powered by Omega 6x12 (2-Vin30's, 2-GT-75's, 2-K-100's)

X1Glider
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Getting the most out of your Multiscale?

Postby X1Glider » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:00 am

Prevention,

I went through a phase about 25 years ago where I did exactly what "Nemesis" just shared. I wanted to discover if balancing the tension across all strings was going to feel better and intonate better. This discovery applied strictly to a uni-scale guitar at the time.

1. It most certainly did not feel better. While I needed the extra tension on the low end, it was too tight on the high strings for lots of fast bending and vibrato. Also, a wound G string felt too big on the finger tips and would wear the frets quicker, especially since I was also using a lot of force to bend it, which also means I was using more force to drag it across the frets. It also really sounded like crap when soloing into the higher fret zone.

2. It also did not intonate any better. Sometimes it was worse on the high end. On single notes, not such a big deal, because I could tune it slightly flat and add more pressure or bend into tune. Playing full chords, it was terrible.

3. Volume level: The volume level of each string changed. Some strings like the G, D and E over powered the others. On my 7s, the low B was better for volume balance but was way to heavy a gauge for comfort. The volume level could be fixed with screw pole pieces at least. The guitar I could not fix that with was when I was using the piezo. I could adjust the overall volume but not at the individual string.

4. Attack: Higher tension strings have better attack. This is great for acoustics across all strings and for the low end of an electric but often, the high end needs less attack or it will sound too harsh and jangly.

On a fanned 7, 25.5" - 26.25", I did the same test with balancing the tensions.

1. I could use a slightly lighter low E and B for a better feel. Volume was good and intonation was better. (that's a function of the longer scale)

2. the High B and G got too tight for my style of playing. Controlled and loose classic rock style soloing to fast shredding with lots of bends, vibrato and smooth legato. High E was better because of the shorter scale.

But the conclusion was that I still preferred my high strings between 12 and 14 lbs and the low B around 17 lbs.

The bottom line is find the gauges that feel best to you, then stretch tune for the best overall intonation based on what you play. Mostly single notes and low end barre chords or full chords, open or complex with adding a finger here and there?

For my current 25.5-26.25 scale, I'm using .009, .011, .014, .024w, .036, .046, .059.

The .024w and .036 are not ideal for me. I'd prefer a .022w and .034 but Elixir doesn't make them. This for me would be the best "feel."

Don't get hung up on trying to be too technical about something that really just needs to appeal to you and you alone.

When my Skervesen is finished, it's 25-26" scale will likely send me back to figuring out which string will work best with it. But it sure won't be balanced across all strings. It just doesn't sound right.


Return to Kiesel Guitars / Carvin Guitars

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: skully13a and 26 guests