Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby Spiritus » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:18 pm

Spiritus wrote: ... am simply after a rather classic Strat-like character and would be good with something better. ...


I might add that my terms "Strat tones" and "Strat-like character" are relative. For the one time I tested out a number of different higher end Strat models at a Guitar Center back in the mid-90s, I found each one to be different. The Texas Strat stood out the most, not only because of its bridge humbucker which could really kick--and scream--but because to my ears its single coils sounded better than the others. No question as to which model I would have gone with had I felt a need for a Strat at the time.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby ElfDude » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:13 pm

Spiritus wrote:
killa j wrote:... Lithiums split very well in my opinion. ....

Is that to potentially say that a Lithium humbucker with coil splitter at the bridge could/might be a good match with S60As at middle and neck positions? Or would it be better to go with single coils in all three positions?


In humbucking mode the Lithium would be a lot louder than the S60A pickups. But they really to make good single coils when split. And in its single coil mode I bet it would blend really well with the S60As.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby killa j » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:01 am

The video with Lithiums is an ash bodied Vader with a maple neck. I agree with ElfDude about the Lithium with single coils.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:19 am

I've used the older S60 pickups (not the S60A, though they don't sound much different to me). Great Stratish, bright sound, especially when paired with 500k pots. They mellow a bit with 250k.

The AP11 seems to have more output, and is pretty full sounding to my ear. It's like a modern Strat (and I've used them in actual Strats to replace the stock pickups). Very similar, just better IMO. Pair well with 500k pots, and will also mellow a bit with 250k.

I have zero experience with the newer singles, and am quite happy with the AP11 or S60. The only single I like more are the Wilde L200 series. They are a stacked humbucker design, but lower output, and sound exactly as I'd hoped a good Strat style single would. They have a bit more output than an AP11, too. Can't go wrong with any of these at all.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:39 am

I used to always think the AP11 was a single bobbin sliced off the M22N vintage wind because those old humbuckers split so bloody well, but to my surprise I discovered that the mags on those singles were ceramic... so that probably contributes to their loudness generally versus Fender Strat single coils that have A3 and A5 slug mags. (Of course just being ceramic and just having a high ohm reading doesn't guarantee that the pickup is built to be much louder than a another pup).

I need to play more than the one Hanson guitar I've played in my life that I definitely knew had neoD mags, but I generally think these are good subs for ceramic mags.. powerful but smaller.. but most critically warmer than your typical ceramic-loaded pup--at least from what admittedly tiny bit of experience I've had with them. I'm sure they'll start being more prevalent sooner rather than later. They've made some notable contribs to the cab speaker world.

Also found this couple of pages in this book, which is short but sweet:

https://books.google.com/books?id=A0_Qm ... ts&f=false
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:39 am

The AP11 has a surprisingly low DCR for its output. The magnetic probably helps with output.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby Spiritus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Spiritus wrote:
killa j wrote:... Lithiums split very well in my opinion. ....

Is that to potentially say that a Lithium humbucker with coil splitter at the bridge could/might be a good match with S60As...

Actually, considering the output of a Lithium, it might be better paired with AP11s in an HSS configuration.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:04 pm

AP11's are discontinued. Tru?
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby spudmunkey » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:11 pm

gumbynotpokey wrote:AP11's are discontinued. Tru?


No. Yes...well, kind of...but they are on their way out. A few years ago when the S60 pickups were released, they replaced the AP 11 as the standard single coil for at least the Bolt model, and I believe and other models that had an option for single coils. The AP 11 pickups were still available, they just were not the standard. Fast forward to about 6 months ago, and Jeff gave a heads up that they are not going to be placing another order for the parts needed to make the 22 pole pickups anymore, and that includes the AP 11 pick up as well. Basically, they will continue to offer them until they no longer have the parts available to do so. When he made the announcement, he said he couldn't promise if it was just going to be a month, or a year, depending on the demand... But they are still on the builder, and you can still purchase them as parts online.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:14 pm

spudmunkey wrote:
gumbynotpokey wrote:AP11's are discontinued. Tru?


No. Yes...well, kind of...but they are on their way out. A few years ago when the S60 pickups were released, they replaced the AP 11 as the standard single coil for at least the Bolt model, and I believe and other models that had an option for single coils. The AP 11 pickups were still available, they just were not the standard. Fast forward to about 6 months ago, and Jeff gave a heads up that they are not going to be placing another order for the parts needed to make the 22 pole pickups anymore, and that includes the AP 11 pick up as well. Basically, they will continue to offer them until they no longer have the parts available to do so. When he made the announcement, he said he couldn't promise if it was just going to be a month, or a year, depending on the demand... But they are still on the builder, and you can still purchase them as parts online.


hmm
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:19 pm

spudmunkey wrote:
gumbynotpokey wrote:AP11's are discontinued. Tru?


No. Yes...well, kind of...but they are on their way out. A few years ago when the S60 pickups were released, they replaced the AP 11 as the standard single coil for at least the Bolt model, and I believe and other models that had an option for single coils. The AP 11 pickups were still available, they just were not the standard. Fast forward to about 6 months ago, and Jeff gave a heads up that they are not going to be placing another order for the parts needed to make the 22 pole pickups anymore, and that includes the AP 11 pick up as well. Basically, they will continue to offer them until they no longer have the parts available to do so. When he made the announcement, he said he couldn't promise if it was just going to be a month, or a year, depending on the demand... But they are still on the builder, and you can still purchase them as parts online.


Yet the AP11 itself replaced the original S60 as the defacto single coil choice in the mid/late 90s. I'm surprised stock has held out this long for the 22 pole models, but am glad to see they're not yet gone. Here's to them making it to one year (about October time-frame from initial EOL statement).
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby ghostryder » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:31 am

I don't understand the logic of it? The AP11s remain popular and many would rather have AP11s rather than the Lithiums. I guess with the s60s still going they have the base covered to some degree --- but it seems they're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I get Jeffs trying to brand Kiesel as the go to for shredder gear.. with all the headless and bevel stuff...but I really view that stuff like I view disco. it's popular now but the fad is gonna go bye bye sooner or later. In the end classic is what lasts the test of time-- and in my view they should be positioning themselves to be the go to for the best classic designs. They're doing that pretty well with the solo and Johnny Highland model and the Greg Howe model but in the overall theme those seem to be more distractions to Jeff's main focus.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby amispy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:55 am

As many have said, the S60's sound great. I just bought a used Bolt with S60's in the neck and middle, and a single coil lithium in the bridge. I have a ton of Carvin/Kiesels guitars but I'd never played a Bolt and I'd never heard the S60's. Man am I impressed. They're pretty hot, but I can roll back the volume and back them off a little if needed. They have a nice chime to them too. The Bolt's S60's sound better than my actual Fender. I'm getting ready to put my Strat up for sale and stick with the bolt.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:30 am

Nice. Those are the kind of testaments I love.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby ElfDude » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:27 am

Yep. Ami knows stuff.
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:59 am

ElfDude wrote:Yep. Ami knows stuff.


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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:26 pm

amispy wrote:As many have said, the S60's sound great. I just bought a used Bolt with S60's in the neck and middle, and a single coil lithium in the bridge. I have a ton of Carvin/Kiesels guitars but I'd never played a Bolt and I'd never heard the S60's. Man am I impressed. They're pretty hot, but I can roll back the volume and back them off a little if needed. They have a nice chime to them too. The Bolt's S60's sound better than my actual Fender. I'm getting ready to put my Strat up for sale and stick with the bolt.


You bought Flock's old silver Bolt?
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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby relias7505 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:38 pm

Nice man! My bolt has AP11's and I love them!!

amispy wrote:As many have said, the S60's sound great. I just bought a used Bolt with S60's in the neck and middle, and a single coil lithium in the bridge. I have a ton of Carvin/Kiesels guitars but I'd never played a Bolt and I'd never heard the S60's. Man am I impressed. They're pretty hot, but I can roll back the volume and back them off a little if needed. They have a nice chime to them too. The Bolt's S60's sound better than my actual Fender. I'm getting ready to put my Strat up for sale and stick with the bolt.
My Kiesel/Carvin collection: ST300 (M22SD bridge, S60A middle, Twin Blade neck), SCB6 (S22B bridge, S22J neck), Bolt Classic (AP11's in all positions), SH550 (S22T in the neck and bridge), AC375 and CL450. Also a Carvin V3M 50watt head with a Carvin 1x12 cabinet and Fender Jazz Bass.

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby Sonny1972 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:17 am

What I have learned: if you want a Stratocaster, buy a Stratocaster. And also: if you want a Carvin DC127, buy a Carvin DC127.
Also, everybody has his "strat-tone" in his head. I have a DC127 from 1995, it has a really nice quacky tone with the splittet humbuckers.
I heavily modded a Carvin Bolt to get it closer to my "strat-tone", but went back to the AP11s and left it with its really nice and bluesy "Bolt-tone".
I was in a guitar store in 2003, searching for my "strat-tone", and played 25 or 30 guitars, and left the store with a Framus Diablo, with ash body and bubinga neck. Until today, this is my "strat".

So, try before you buy :wink:

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Re: Strat sound - Which Kiesel pickups bring it on?

Postby amispy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:07 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:You bought Flock's old silver Bolt?

Yes I did. :-)
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