Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Bovine » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:45 pm

I think it's mostly about giving Zak a real life hands on project, to help see if continuing on the family business is something he may want to do later on. Getting your feet wet like this can help a guy know whether or not this is really for you.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Doctor Doug » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:15 pm

That Zak kid looks like my nephew. It kind of freaks me out.

For some people it will be cool. "The owners son worked on my guitar!" kind of stuff.

I just want my guitars to be all kinds of awesome.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby texastoast » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:17 am

dbone wrote:Wow you guys could be a little more supportive. Give the kid a shot, or at least not be outright negative. I’m sure the package deal will be a good value and the quality scrutinized by pops and grand pops alike.
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First of all i think it is a fair question. It is simply a question of does it mean anything to you or not. I did not say it was wrong or bad. The comment on the hardware store was more the amazement that a small hardware store still exist in the home depot world. I could see how that could have been perceived as negative I guess.

I am perhaps a bad tempered or surly person. Or perhaps I place value differently than you. So here is your dictionary quote.
Intolerant, adjective
not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own. (joking darnit)
Seriously I may be different. Let me give you an example. Taking any resale value aside, a $500 dollar guitar signed by a famous artist is worth about $500 to me. To some it increases the value (emotional, personal value). It means more to them because it was signed by someone they admire. Means nothing to me. I would never ask anyone for an autograph anyway. So I do not understand the attraction. Like Sheldon Cooper does not understand sarcasm. So sometimes I need to ask for clarification.


Most important of all is this is not a little league up for his first time at bat. They are charging me for his work and making a profit.

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:48 am

texastoast wrote:I am perhaps a bad tempered or surly person.


Quote of the day, Toast! :woot:
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby ioneater » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:36 am

Jeez, it's just another guitar run. The Kiesels are obviously proud of this business being family owned and family run for all these years. Seems like a great way to formally introduce the next generation of Kiesels to current and potential customers. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff's other kids may have involvement like this in the future. I did the same thing with my Dad in the business he started. Give them a break.

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:49 am

ghostryder wrote:the differences between Zak and Jeff however is Jeff didn't do college as 'he knew what he wanted to do". Take a look at Zak in the last facebook live vid. I'm serious when I say zak's a impression of a teenager being forced to volunteer at a nursing home. There just isn't that vibe he's that invested.


I remember being rather unexcited about pretty much everything at that age, too, and no amount of coercing would change my mind. It'll be fun to see how this turns out, even if Zak is unenthusiastic.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby ghostryder » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:02 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:
ghostryder wrote:the differences between Zak and Jeff however is Jeff didn't do college as 'he knew what he wanted to do". Take a look at Zak in the last facebook live vid. I'm serious when I say zak's a impression of a teenager being forced to volunteer at a nursing home. There just isn't that vibe he's that invested.


I remember being rather unexcited about pretty much everything at that age, too, and no amount of coercing would change my mind. It'll be fun to see how this turns out, even if Zak is unenthusiastic.


Indeed. One could think of 100s of scenerios and run with drama conspiracy theories endlessly. Let's say for example the run runs into countless delays and takes weeks longer....gee did zak intentionally fudge finish jobs causing all those re-sands /rebuilds ?!

You got to remember--this isn't fixing cars or selling hammers at a hardware store. This is a buisness selling instruments to artists--with well known ones on board as indorsers. If your name is John Suhr, Paul Reed Smith having a run makes sense....otherwise....uh....no. If Jeff ran the local Diner and zak wants to pour my coffee is not the same as zak building an instrument I had to save months/years for and is my life long love or bread and butter.

It is what it is. :P

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:06 am

ioneater wrote:Jeez, it's just another guitar run. The Kiesels are obviously proud of this business being family owned and family run for all these years. Seems like a great way to formally introduce the next generation of Kiesels to current and potential customers. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff's other kids may have involvement like this in the future. I did the same thing with my Dad in the business he started. Give them a break.


That's the thing I think negates the whole "nepotism" charge is just that--the company name is the family name. UNless and until the company is sold to outsiders, the Kiesels will move generation by generation into spots of final power and ownership. Ownership and leadership is not going to move by merit or seniority--it's just the nature of "family owned." Same went for Mark and--with the audio side--Gavin and Carson (and in that last case may be an argument in an entirely different direction, owing to the sad results. But Jeff and Mark are doing just fine, so things worked well there.)
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Jack'O'Licious » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am

Its amazing how many guitar business experts come out of the woodworks to bash someone when such a small run is brought to the table.

Man, its a run of guitars. I would do the same thing with my son because I love him and think it would be fun. I don't see anywhere that anyone is being forced to buy one so suck it up. Its just a cool idea for Jeff to share with his son and who knows, maybe give him some profit from it before he goes to college or something. So far the work looks sweet so I cant see a problem with that.

As far as bashing Jeff like he's the worst thing to happen to guitars, I think its uncalled for but also a bit of ignorant or lack of a better word. How do you know the videos don't pull more than the catalogs? I almost guarantee they do. Videos can keep us updated on a daily basis with almost no cost where Carvin had to pay for catalogs and lets face it, its freakin 2018 man. Get with the times. Waiting for a catalog to come in that doesn't keep you updated until the next one compared to a video that can be uploaded every day? More people are online than there are turning pages in catalogs. That may be sad and harder to deal with for old fashioned guys but it is what it is. Jeff is a good business man and if the catalogs were bringing in the numbers then you don't think he would continue them? I know we like tradition and nostalgia but you cant run a business on that if it isn't pulling the weight.

Also, who TF cares if he's buying race tires?! LMAO who are you to judge what hes buying with the money he makes?
He owns a huge company and you want to criticize him or spending the hard earned money on something he loves? And don't say its not hard earned, he puts in his time and seems to have a hectic schedule. More hectic than I would like and I feel like I am pretty busy lol. And even if the company WAS "handed" to him, he's earning his spot and working for it. Lighten up on him for God's sake. I love the direction he has taken Kiesel in and it is obviously working because it is a successful business that is thriving and growing and is why he's in the guitar business and some of you aren't marketing, advertising, or guitar business. I would love if they were a bit cheaper, then I would own more than 2 lol but I understand why they aren't. And Jeff may be a little cocky but you are going overboard calling him an ego maniac. I don't get the vibe that he is trying to sell his sons guitars because "He is obviously a guitar god since he sprung from my Heroic god-like loins". Its just a cool fun idea that hopefully gives us a chance at a discounted run lol.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby ioneater » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:43 am

Doctor Turn wrote:
ioneater wrote:Jeez, it's just another guitar run. The Kiesels are obviously proud of this business being family owned and family run for all these years. Seems like a great way to formally introduce the next generation of Kiesels to current and potential customers. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff's other kids may have involvement like this in the future. I did the same thing with my Dad in the business he started. Give them a break.


That's the thing I think negates the whole "nepotism" charge is just that--the company name is the family name. UNless and until the company is sold to outsiders, the Kiesels will move generation by generation into spots of final power and ownership. Ownership and leadership is not going to move by merit or seniority--it's just the nature of "family owned." Same went for Mark and--with the audio side--Gavin and Carson (and in that last case may be an argument in an entirely different direction, owing to the sad results. But Jeff and Mark are doing just fine, so things worked well there.)


I really respect what they have been able to accomplish as after all of these years even though I don't care for some of the product changes. That's ok, they are trying to remain relevant to the market, stay competitive, and remain in the business. The American Dream, right?

In my example earlier, my father and I were not able to make it work. I left before it came to blows, lol. Two strong willed dudes in a cut-throat aviation business. He ended up running it very successfully alone and retired a few years ago. None of us kids or in-laws could tolerate him in a working relationship it turned out. That's what amazes me with what we see with the Kiesels. It can't be easy.......can it?

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:14 am

I could probably listen to you talk for hours on end about aviation, and your experience flying, the company, etc.. I'm one of those guys who wished I could have lived two lives.. one life playing music and writing, etc.. and one where I went thru the air force (or navy or marine flyboy) to make my civvy life afterward in aviation.. but I have to satisfy myself looking at vids, daydreaming, and using sims. . . many of which have come a long way. Have you taken a gander at Infinite Flight Global/Live? Where you can fly in real time all over the globe, look out the window and see your friend flying beside you (if he chooses to pull up into the vicinity), and the weather, winds, turbulence, etc are updated on the server moment to moment so you're flying in realtime conditions? It's pretty impressive. Every airport in the world from grass airstrips for little Cessnas and Cirrus are there along with of course all the major international and regionals.

Amazing the advancement of sims at the mobile level!
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There was a moment there where the change happened, Carvin dissolving into Kiesel, and the more "fusiony/classic rocky" Carvin faded into the more "djenty FB/YT" world of social media guitar playing. I got caught up in some of the emotional freaking out.

Much of this reaction to the moves that Jeff made is as much a reaction to the changes in music and guitar playing as they sit at the moment in the public perception, as it is a reaction to the changes in the company. Jeff deftly reacted to those changes and took possession of that world and its market in a way that left lots of companies (all of them also trying to sell to this market) befuddled.

Less than the design of the guitars (though I'm not the biggest bevel guy in the world) I think it's the sound of those guitars and their pickups that gave me a shudder.. but I'm over most of that. I can only admire the quality, which doesn't seem to have suffered at all, the huge choices of woods, finishes, hardware, etc, and the buzz-generation and imitation by other leading companies. Especially since Jeff has managed to pull so much of this off without many new endorsements of much significance. I'm definitely going to be getting a Kiesel, I just can't for the life of me settle on a model. I keep flirting with getting a nice light headless. But I also want that all korina CS so badly, and would love to work on the boys to get them to throw a 24.75" scale neck on there.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby speedyone » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:35 am

Hey Bundy,
Sorry to thread hijack, but do YOU know if the original H2 is discontinued?
Tried asking others, but no luck.
In regard to the limited run; there’s no way Jeff would knowingly let inferior work leave the shop, so I think wish Zak the best. More options is always good!

I was responsible for getting the 20” radius implemented on non-Holdsworth models years ago, and I’m thrilled to death that Kiesel is open to requests and innovation!

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby X1Glider » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:40 am

ioneater wrote:In my example earlier, my father and I were not able to make it work. I left before it came to blows, lol. Two strong willed dudes in a cut-throat aviation business. He ended up running it very successfully alone and retired a few years ago. None of us kids or in-laws could tolerate him in a working relationship it turned out. That's what amazes me with what we see with the Kiesels. It can't be easy.......can it?

I've always believed in not going into business with family or friends. Seems like 90% of people that do end up ruining their personal relationships and then the business takes the hit next.

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby X1Glider » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:02 am

Well said Jack O'liscious. Too many people making assumptions about how the kid is being raised (or forced to do things against his will) and what his dreams and goals in life are.

I get it, what some others are saying, it sounds all rainbows and unicorns and sunshine to think that someone's kids will take over the family business and keep passing it on. Maybe the kid will go to college and come back to build the business. Maybe he has other ideas about what he wants to do with the rest of his life. Plenty of examples out there where the kids want nothing to do with the family business and want more or something else. None of us know him. Wether he plays guitar at all or if even even likes them. Not our business to know either and there's no obligation to fill us in about it. What I do know is he's not sitting around being useless, watching porn all summer long. He's learning some skills and developing a work ethic like all teens should be doing.

Also, what I know is, we're all pretty lucky to have a company run by and guided by a couple of guys who are very enthusiastic about what they do and are doing a better job at it than the "other 2 guys." That passion shows in their products. And we all benefit from the end result.

As for the run coming up...you guys decide with your own wallets. Dad isn't going to let substandard work out the door. The build quality will be the same as any other run. Most likely, Zack will simply be doing the finishing, not the actual building of the whole enchilada. But like everyone else here, I honestly don't know anything about his role is going to be. We'll find out when it's announced.

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:15 am

X1Glider wrote:Well said Jack O'liscious. Too many people making assumptions about how the kid is being raised (or forced to do things against his will) and what his dreams and goals in life are.

I get it, what some others are saying, it sounds all rainbows and unicorns and sunshine to think that someone's kids will take over the family business and keep passing it on. Maybe the kid will go to college and come back to build the business. Maybe he has other ideas about what he wants to do with the rest of his life. Plenty of examples out there where the kids want nothing to do with the family business and want more or something else. None of us know him. Wether he plays guitar at all or if even even likes them. Not our business to know either and there's no obligation to fill us in about it. What I do know is he's not sitting around being useless, watching porn all summer long. He's learning some skills and developing a work ethic like all teens should be doing.

Also, what I know is, we're all pretty lucky to have a company run by and guided by a couple of guys who are very enthusiastic about what they do and are doing a better job at it than the "other 2 guys." That passion shows in their products. And we all benefit from the end result.

As for the run coming up...you guys decide with your own wallets. Dad isn't going to let substandard work out the door. The build quality will be the same as any other run. Most likely, Zack will simply be doing the finishing, not the actual building of the whole enchilada. But like everyone else here, I honestly don't know anything about his role is going to be. We'll find out when it's announced.


Well--you know, it's interesting, the history of this company and Mark in particular.

In the 70's, Mark was the son who went off on his own and became an engineer, didn't work for his pop. It was Gavin and Carson who did. Thus CARson gaVIN.

Company was hitting against the pricks of a tough industry being undercut by cheap Asian knockoffs (which knocked a good number of companies for a loop), and Carvin didn't have much brand recognition going for itself at that point in the first place. Not to mention the unusual direct biz model kept them out of stores and industrial recognition.

Mark was brought into the company, revitalized their guitar and pickup lines, used his engineering skills to start putting together their own necks and gluing them in instead of bolting them on (even for LP style guitars). His arrival and fresh ideas coincided with the first real golden age of the company with those amazing set neck--then later thru necks--guitars with the incredible M22 pup line. That combined with the X amp line rocketed the company into the big time.

So--sometimes it's the boy who went out into the world to make his bones on his own.. and then comes back to the ol homestead.. who is the one who turns things around. Mark, out of all the boys, is still going strong to this day, whereas the rest has withered off the vine.

Take from that what you will. I have no dogs in this discussion. I could understand the "huh?" questions, but I also don't see it as nepotism, really. I just think it's a way of having the boy say "Hi" as the possible next generation of the Kiesels that make up KIESEL.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 am

speedyone wrote:Hey Bundy,
Sorry to thread hijack, but do YOU know if the original H2 is discontinued?
Tried asking others, but no luck.


I'm not Bundy, but you are correct: the HF2 "Fatboy" and the headless are still there, but the original was retired a couple of months ago,

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby ghostryder » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:24 pm

Jack'O'Licious wrote:Its amazing how many guitar business experts come out of the woodworks to bash someone when such a small run is brought to the table.

Man, its a run of guitars. I would do the same thing with my son because I love him and think it would be fun. I don't see anywhere that anyone is being forced to buy one so suck it up. Its just a cool idea for Jeff to share with his son and who knows, maybe give him some profit from it before he goes to college or something. So far the work looks sweet so I cant see a problem with that.

As far as bashing Jeff like he's the worst thing to happen to guitars, I think its uncalled for but also a bit of ignorant or lack of a better word. How do you know the videos don't pull more than the catalogs? I almost guarantee they do. Videos can keep us updated on a daily basis with almost no cost where Carvin had to pay for catalogs and lets face it, its freakin 2018 man. Get with the times. Waiting for a catalog to come in that doesn't keep you updated until the next one compared to a video that can be uploaded every day? More people are online than there are turning pages in catalogs. That may be sad and harder to deal with for old fashioned guys but it is what it is. Jeff is a good business man and if the catalogs were bringing in the numbers then you don't think he would continue them? I know we like tradition and nostalgia but you cant run a business on that if it isn't pulling the weight.

Also, who TF cares if he's buying race tires?! LMAO who are you to judge what hes buying with the money he makes?
He owns a huge company and you want to criticize him or spending the hard earned money on something he loves? And don't say its not hard earned, he puts in his time and seems to have a hectic schedule. More hectic than I would like and I feel like I am pretty busy lol. And even if the company WAS "handed" to him, he's earning his spot and working for it. Lighten up on him for God's sake. I love the direction he has taken Kiesel in and it is obviously working because it is a successful business that is thriving and growing and is why he's in the guitar business and some of you aren't marketing, advertising, or guitar business. I would love if they were a bit cheaper, then I would own more than 2 lol but I understand why they aren't. And Jeff may be a little cocky but you are going overboard calling him an ego maniac. I don't get the vibe that he is trying to sell his sons guitars because "He is obviously a guitar god since he sprung from my Heroic god-like loins". Its just a cool fun idea that hopefully gives us a chance at a discounted run lol.


I just new someone would eventually passionately defend against the doubters and that's fine--but your off base in a lot of things and making assumptions or actually putting words in people's mouths.

How do I know if the vids don't bring in the buisness the catalogs did? that's easy. The 'views' of the vids are counted...and easily displayed and seen. I'd rethink the stance they replace the catalogs. They are a good addition but they are not a replacement. Those shop tour vids rarely enjoy more than a couple hundred views. The only vids that enjoy any real numbers aren't the Q&As or the tours but rather the NAMM vids on utube---which would happen wether Jeff did his vids or not-because the bulk of those are created and posted by third parties---so let's be reasonably measured in our praises about the vids Jeff do. They aren't all that industry changes. A footnote perhaps....

Secondly my mentioning the tires wasn't a knock on how the rich live. It's out of my income bracket for sure...heck I couldn't afford go carts. That was not the point. You missed the point. and that point was to link the idea jeff is pushing zak-- the racing and other perks being a tool to that end---and explaining that point let me also explain it's not a general knock on what jeff decides to spend his money on....the forementioned point was the point. You extracting something and giving it your angle when what your whining about wasn't there to begin with.

Thirdly wether Jeff is a good buisnessman has yet to play out. When Jeff discontinues the bolt+ it wasn't the number of sales that drove that...it was to purposely create a void so the aries would be successful. Bolt+ sales were doing fine. The contour 66 sales needed help--say 24 fret necks or choices of top woods-- but Jeff just scratches the model. Again for the sake of the aries line.

A good buisnessman doesn't steer customers to a product but rather has a bead on what they want and provides that product.

In the above example which one of those would you say resembles what happened? Now that we just have the bolt where are all the options? from the trem options to the pickups to a 24 fret neck? Any guess why those aren't happening?

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:24 pm

Two notes...

Did they actually mention what the body wood is anywhere in description? I'm assuming it's Ash.

I do love the name of "Almost Green". Haha! Like, seriously.

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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby skully13a » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:57 pm

it says ash in that promo piece.
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Re: Kiesel Guitars mini Solo and Aries Run

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:24 pm

Not bad pricing, especially since solid cocobolo necks are a $500 option (I would know). So worth it, though. They must have received a batch of it, or are trying to move the stuff from last year. 1 piece Ash body, too. Not bad option list overall, and had I not ordered an ash bodied, cocobolo neck Z6X a few days ago, I may have been interested, though I still like headless more.
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