New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

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ghostryder
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby ghostryder » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:01 am

Koshchei wrote:I've been pretty adamant that the Delos is Kiesel's response to the Vigier Excalibur since it was announced. The headstock is a point in favour of my theory, I think... hell, as a super-strat, the Excalibur has been pretty much unchallenged in terms of its insane playability for going-on 20 years now. It's about time somebody else got something into that ballpark.


All the info I've seen agrees. The best playing guitar ever. They don't use truss rods--which seems a bit odd---one would think your stuck with one setup and would be in trouble if you went with higher gauge strings that would buzz--but what they do is use a six piece zero fret. By changing out the different pieces you can adjust the action.
as nice as the guitar plays the pick ups aren't anything special. but that can easily be fixed with after market ones.

Roasted necks are indeed popular-especially on higher end models. But I tend to lean towards those 2 carbon fiber rods being superior. Lots of popular out there that Jeff seems ignorant of until it hits him over the head. HSH for example whereas he believed the crap 6 point trem from the 70s was all the fad...go figure. :wall:

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:24 am

ghostryder wrote: whereas he believed the crap 6 point trem from the 70s was all the fad...go figure. :wall:


I don't think he thought it was "all the fad"...the opposite. He assumed there would be more folks looking for the "vintage" hardware on this specific model.

For what it's worth, on yesterday's Q&A, he mentioned some specific version of a decked Gotoh 510 and asked for feedback. :mrgreen:
Last edited by spudmunkey on Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby wickid » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:30 pm


Its actually a toss-up for me between the GT or the original pointy inline they started with. Neither were wowing me, but they don't suck. Its a headstock (or a footstock? :mrgreen: ).
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby amispy » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:01 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Roasted maple:
Necks are not available for neck-throughs. Only bolt-on, set neck, and set-through.
To expand on this, roasted necks are not available on neck-throughs, but someone could put a roasted maple fretboard on a neck-through.


spudmunkey wrote:They just weren't having luck with wood sourced elsewhere, so they decided to research, experiment, and do it in-house.
Jeff mentioned that the roasted wood he was getting from a supplier was so brittle that more than 50% of the necks he tried to make 'chipped out'.


wickid wrote:Its actually a toss-up for me between the GT or the original pointy inline they started with. Neither were wowing me, but they don't suck.
+1
Neither headstock excites me or offends me.
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby OotMagroot » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:20 pm

The new GT headstock looks like a LsL 'stock....

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:06 am

I don't mind the new headstock. It works, it's slightly more compact, and still hints at the "classic" headstock shape that I've always liked.

I'd looked into roasted maple necks for a while, and just what went into "torrefied" wood in general. The brittleness and chipout was a direct response to possibly over-baking the wood. In the picture comparing the two necks, it looks like Kiesel went with a "light" roast. Probably just enough to get some of the sugars in the remaining sap to carmelize, and not actually burn.

Roasting sort of helps "age" the wood, from what I gather, and Martin's used it on their acoustics to help stabilize the wood further, but it's, again, a lighter amount of roasting, and not quite the dark stuff I've seen from Warmoth.

I doubt I'd ever order it, and have had zero issues with their reinforced necks. That reminds me. I have an NGD post to make.
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:14 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:
I'd looked into roasted maple necks for a while, and just what went into "torrefied" wood in general. The brittleness and chipout was a direct response to possibly over-baking the wood. In the picture comparing the two necks, it looks like Kiesel went with a "light" roast. Probably just enough to get some of the sugars in the remaining sap to carmelize, and not actually burn.


It might be a lighter roast to steer clear of other issues roasted woods can apparently have.

Here's a VP or product development for Fender showing off some guitars roasted guitar necks at '16 NAMM. I don't remember the time stamp, but he basically says something like, "And this bass has a roasted body...can't get a roasted neck on basses, for obvious reasons, because of lack of stability there." So clearly, while other manufacturers have found ways to work with roasted maple successfully for years, even someone like Fender still had specific concerns in some applications, at least when this video was filmed at NAMM 2016. The "for obvious reasons" was the most interesting part of that, as if indicating that this problem with roasted maple was well-known.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wVjvrMpAN4

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:51 am

I suppose one other benefit of their true roasted maple over their Kiesel Treated Board/Neck: it seems like the roasted maple retains the 10-day trial period. At least Jeff hasn't specifically mentioned that it doesn't anywhere in the video, and it wasn't mentioned anywhere in any of the other social media posts.

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:07 am

I've heard that roasted maple can be unstable, as well as brittle, etc. It has excellent rot resistance, however. I've seen very old wood also become brittle, but we're talking 100+ years old. I don't know what roasting it would do compared to the real thing.

We'll see how things pan out, but I do have confidence in Kiesel's ability to create a great product, and if they're confident in the wood, that's good enough for me. Besides, they invested time and money into this, and are offering it with warranty, so if it turns out to be a bust, they'll figure it out quickly. Despite having no desire to order it myself, other than novelty, as well as having my collection complete, should I ever encounter one of these, I'll definitely play it, and run it through some tests to see how it looks/performs, as I'm still curious from an engineering standpoint.

However, one can roast maple all day long; I'll still take Cocobolo.
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby amispy » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:54 am

UnexplodedCow wrote:one can roast maple all day long; I'll still take Cocobolo.

This is so true. Cocobolo necks feels great.

Btw, it's funny how Jeff mentioned that roasting helps the maple expands less. However, Jeff also said that other woods like walnut make for more stable necks than even roasted maple. He said the 5-pc necks are more stable than roasted maple.
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:31 pm

Headstock looks like the same old revised Carvin inline headstock, the one that used to be pointy but got shaved down.

Still really only a fan of their trad paddle, the one that's very close the Gibby L6S style

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:43 pm

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby wickid » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:03 pm


Could we see a whole guitar w/the GT please? thx 8)
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:09 pm

wickid wrote:
Could we see a whole guitar w/the GT please? thx 8)


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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby wickid » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:14 pm


yay :applause:
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby rYche » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:18 pm

I'm digging it :) May have to place an order.

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:40 pm

I definitely prefer it. I can tell that it's shorter, and I think it would look even more compact with a TRC. Their "older" inline looked much too long, and too thin/anemic, especially near the middle of it's life when it was slimmed down. Not that I ever thought it was ugly, and I wouldn't have turned down an otherwise-perfect GIS or used deal with it, but I do prefer this one.

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby Omsong » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:52 pm

I'll second that; if my next Kiesel isn't a headless, it will have the new headstock.
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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby sinistas » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:24 pm

I really like the GT headstock. It's somewhere in between the classic headstock and the old SB. Dropping the classic headstock after close to two decades (with slight changes along the way, obviously) makes me a bit sad, though. I do understand that they're probably too close in shape to keep both. Anyways, another piece of Carvin history gone. I will reiterate that I dig the new design.

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Re: New "GT" headstock and in-house roasted maple.

Postby DannyB819 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:18 pm

Why I don't like it:

1 - I think tilt-back headstocks look patently wrong or "off" on classically inspired Strat-style guitars.
2 - It looks really long and skinny, but I felt also that way about the design this replaced.
3 - It looks like a department store knockoff.
4 - The shoulders on the top and bottom seem like they're way too far away from the nut.
5 - The placement of the high E string tuner makes the end look "nubby."
6 - The routing for access to the truss rod looks like it's about two times longer than it needs to be.

Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my opinion isn't really worth much at all, if anything at all. It's just yet another new option in a long line of new options in which I have zero interest.


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