NGD - Vader V6X

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arahobob
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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby arahobob » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:27 pm

Mr Seafoam wrote:FYI I don't think this is really an odd situation with the V6X trem. I have 4 other guitars with non-locking trems (all different brands). 2 of them will pull out with some pressure when they are tightened up and 2 act like the Kiesel and can't be pulled out. I think it just depends on the brand of bridge.


Interesting. I can't think of another system that the bar needs to be locked in with a set screw.
Most I've used either pop in or screw in. What system is similar?

I have a bunch as well - PRS, Floyd, gotoh. In the past - fender, ibanez
None require tools. None get all loosey-goosey.
The PRS trem is 20+ years old and works like new. Zero adjustment in its lifetime.

The only one that had a similar Allen screw set up was a wilky on my bolt. That bridge wound up in the trash.
Last edited by arahobob on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby spudmunkey » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:32 pm

The G&L SC-3 is one. Some PRSs too, but I *think* just in the CE range.

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby texastoast » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:41 pm

The vintage trem on my bolt has a set screw as well.

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arahobob
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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby arahobob » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:56 pm

texastoast wrote:The vintage trem on my bolt has a set screw as well.


To snug it up, or to put it in and out each time you want to use it?
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
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2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

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Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby Mr Seafoam » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:40 pm

I have an early '90s G&L S-500 and that bridge has a set screw right on the back of the cup that holds the bar.
I have a Zion with a Wilkinson that has a set screw on the back of the cup that holds the bar.
I have a Warrior with a bridge of unknown identity with a set screw on the back, behind the bar.
I have a custom Strat-style guitar with a Hipshot bridge that has a set screw underneath the bridge, just like the Kiesel.

Most aftermarket bridges I've seen have a set screw to tighten/loosen the bar. Fender bridges don't as far as I remember, but most of the bridges I've come across do. I hope that helps!

EDIT: Just to clarify - I'm talking about non-locking trems with push-in bars. If I remember, locking bridges don't typically need this adjustment because the bars are screwed down (via the bar itself or a cup around the base of the bar). Fender bridges typically have screw-in bars as well, don't they?

EDIT #2: I sell John Page Classic guitars and just looked over an Ashburn (his version of a Strat). Even though the bridge looks like a classic Fender bridge, it has a push in bar and there's a set screw on the back of the cup that holds the bar in. Just one more data point for you!

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby arahobob » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:46 am

Mr Seafoam wrote:I have an early '90s G&L S-500 and that bridge has a set screw right on the back of the cup that holds the bar.
I have a Zion with a Wilkinson that has a set screw on the back of the cup that holds the bar.
I have a Warrior with a bridge of unknown identity with a set screw on the back, behind the bar.
I have a custom Strat-style guitar with a Hipshot bridge that has a set screw underneath the bridge, just like the Kiesel.

Most aftermarket bridges I've seen have a set screw to tighten/loosen the bar. Fender bridges don't as far as I remember, but most of the bridges I've come across do. I hope that helps!

EDIT: Just to clarify - I'm talking about non-locking trems with push-in bars. If I remember, locking bridges don't typically need this adjustment because the bars are screwed down (via the bar itself or a cup around the base of the bar). Fender bridges typically have screw-in bars as well, don't they?

EDIT #2: I sell John Page Classic guitars and just looked over an Ashburn (his version of a Strat). Even though the bridge looks like a classic Fender bridge, it has a push in bar and there's a set screw on the back of the cup that holds the bar in. Just one more data point for you!


Thanks for the info!
I guess the issue in have is the necessary frequency of use.
On my wilky, I adjusted it one time to my liking. That was it.

If I adjust this every time I have to take it on or off, whats the life expectancy of a cheap Allen screw?
The last time I needed a replacement (from Carvin actually) it took 3 months.

Its really just the frequency I'm concerned with.
I can see the metal grinding away, stripping out, etc.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

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Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:27 am

A tip: If you have a screw that you think might need to by replaced at some point, figure out what it is now and spend $10 on a set of 10 from McMaster Carr before the screw is too ruined to figure out what it is, or it gets lost. They even have some upgraded ones with roller ball, and with nylon tips!

I've also had trem bars with threaded ends, and I disliked those, because they would never "catch" at the right point, or if they did, they didn't stay that way for very long.

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby arahobob » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:31 pm

spudmunkey wrote:A tip: If you have a screw that you think might need to by replaced at some point, figure out what it is now and spend $10 on a set of 10 from McMaster Carr before the screw is too ruined to figure out what it is, or it gets lost. They even have some upgraded ones with roller ball, and with nylon tips!

I've also had trem bars with threaded ends, and I disliked those, because they would never "catch" at the right point, or if they did, they didn't stay that way for very long.


Thanks for the link for screws (in each place you shared it! :mrgreen: )
The problem I've had in the past is determining the thread count.

I think you'd have to test drive one yourself to see exactly what my concerns are.
I understand Kiesel isn't the only guys using a bridge with a set screw - there's more out there apparently then I realized!
It's the frequency it needs to be done, and the ease of the adjustment.
Those two factors aren't lining up for me - If I have to adjust it all the time - make it easy.
If its a once in a while thing, I don't mind digging out a wrench and a flashlight to work on the trem.
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby spudmunkey » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:34 pm

Once you figure out the screw size, you might be able to find a thumb screw to make it easier to loosen it when you needed and I just realized in the middle of this sentence that wouldn't work because it's under the bridge. :laughhard:

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby Toptube » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:12 am

Offset dots all on top edge, looks perfect on a Vader. I ordered my Vader bass like that :applause:

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby toejam » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:35 pm

That guitar is pretty awesome! Congrats. :)

My 2014 G&L Legacy has the push-in bar with allen screw. I have the bar slightly snug to where it will move out of the way, as I don't care for it totally tight, and I can always pull or push the bar in with only a little bit of pressure, haven't needed to tighten the screw up since.

BTW, inside the hole for the screw is a little nylon bushing insert so the bar doesn't get scraped by the screw. Not sure if the Wilky or Kiesel systems also have the insert.
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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby arahobob » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:54 pm

toejam wrote:That guitar is pretty awesome! Congrats. :)

My 2014 G&L Legacy has the push-in bar with allen screw. I have the bar slightly snug to where it will move out of the way, as I don't care for it totally tight, and I can always pull or push the bar in with only a little bit of pressure, haven't needed to tighten the screw up since.

BTW, inside the hole for the screw is a little nylon bushing insert so the bar doesn't get scraped by the screw. Not sure if the Wilky or Kiesel systems also have the insert.


The Vader trem is the same except you'd have to put the bar in, push and hold it down, to get access to the screw. Unfortunately with the V6X, it doesn't stay at the tension I'd like it to be. The best I can get it is to be just a little bit too loose.

No nylon bushing - the screw makes direct contact with the bar.
You can see marks on the bar (even some metal shavings early on)
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)

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toejam
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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby toejam » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:49 pm

arahobob wrote:
toejam wrote:That guitar is pretty awesome! Congrats. :)

My 2014 G&L Legacy has the push-in bar with allen screw. I have the bar slightly snug to where it will move out of the way, as I don't care for it totally tight, and I can always pull or push the bar in with only a little bit of pressure, haven't needed to tighten the screw up since.

BTW, inside the hole for the screw is a little nylon bushing insert so the bar doesn't get scraped by the screw. Not sure if the Wilky or Kiesel systems also have the insert.


The Vader trem is the same except you'd have to put the bar in, push and hold it down, to get access to the screw. Unfortunately with the V6X, it doesn't stay at the tension I'd like it to be. The best I can get it is to be just a little bit too loose.

No nylon bushing - the screw makes direct contact with the bar.
You can see marks on the bar (even some metal shavings early on)

Hmmm. Maybe there should be a nylon bushing in there. G&L sells the screw with the bushing on their website... not sure if it would be the same size or not.
https://g-l-online-store.myshopify.com/ ... -screw-set

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Re: NGD - Vader V6X

Postby Rialas » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:34 am

spudmunkey wrote:A tip: If you have a screw that you think might need to by replaced at some point, figure out what it is now and spend $10 on a set of 10 from McMaster Carr before the screw is too ruined to figure out what it is, or it gets lost. They even have some upgraded ones with roller ball, and with nylon tips!

Good idea

I've been searching "set screw" for the past hour for a solution.

Does anyone have a link to purchase the correct size as spares?


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