A message from Frank Gambale

Discuss Kiesel Guitars Endorsers and Professional Players

Moderators: Kevio, ElfDude, JesseM, RockCrue, soundchick, ChrisH, peb, Mike Jones, Bundy

User avatar
arahobob
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 3924
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: Oakhurst, NJ

A message from Frank Gambale

Postby arahobob » Sat May 24, 2014 2:53 pm

Taken from Facebook:

Hiya Folks...
How is everybody doing out there?
Well, as I have said before, I am not one to rant...but I have another one...I will do my best to keep it brief and certainly open to discussion.

Watch the video first.... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/unsound

I am not advocating funding for this project, that's purely up to you, but I am DEEPLY in concert with the subject matter.
I am a musician, an artist, and I always have been. I have never held down a "real" job.
I have always made a living as a musician.
With the advent of the latest technologies the lives of musicians, artists, film makers, authors and anyone involved in intellectual property, our livelihoods are seriously in jeopardy.

I'm NOT whining...simply stating the facts.

The theft of intellectual property on a daily basis on the internet MUST stop.

Imagine how I feel, as an artist, who has spent an entire lifetime honing a craft for art and humanity's sake, when I put my name into Google or Yahoo or whichever search engine and find hundreds of peer to peer torrent sites, hundreds of file sharing sites with ALL my work, books, videos, songs, music minus ones, everything I have produced as an artist ALL being exchanged for FREE...FREE, yes FREE...

My first thoughts are..."What's the point of doing this anymore?". Then I think, well, perhaps I'll notify the giant Google in the sky/cloud/vapour/ether and ask them would they kindly remove as many of the links that I have time to copy and paste for them to remove. (they don't make it easy folks!! ) Then, hey presto!! A day later they send me a nice email saying that the links have been removed.

The following week I put my name into the great Google in the sky again and lo and behold...they are all back and more, slightly changed, but just as rampant as before.

So I think to myself, what a wonderful world ( haha...thanks Satchmo )...no seriously, I think to myself why would I want to pursue this business any further?

My motivation is NOT money folks. It never has been. However, I do need to make a living and feed my family and pay my bills as any person on this planet needs to.
Right now, the circle is BROKEN! If nothing returns to artists, authors, musicians, film makers etc...then, as a business model, it has only one option, it will FAIL as a business model.

The result can only be that great artists, musicians, film makers will choose to do other things with their talents such as, open a restaurant, work for the Post Office, perhaps teach or enter into sales or other industries that are NOT downloadable....yet!

The day that people can download a pizza we're all f***ed because no one will want to make food!!

I wish I could walk into a supermarket, fill up my cart and roll out of the store without paying a cent!! Wouldn't that be utopia?

I can't imagine a world without artisans, great intelligence being manifested through art....I don't want to live in that world.

Bottom line is folks, art is valuable, art is necessary and it needs to be supported by everybody.

Did you see the size of the house that Mr.Dotcom was living in folks?? I must say it made me sick to my stomach to see that opulence from ill-gotten gains. I have NO compassion for anyone running peer-to-peer sites and torrent sites.
In my opinion, they must ALL be brought down. Immediately.
I don't know how.

Google, Yahoo, all the search engines need to block ALL of them. Right now, Google and the like are ALL as guilty as Mr.Dotcom in my opinion because they are giving everyone access to illegal downloads and are not making ANY attempt to stop the problem.
Lawmakers are about 10 years behind the technology, so laws are not going ever catch up so, they useless too.

What's left? Crowd funding? Should I make a video and start pan-handle my fans to provide a budget for my next album/video/book etc?

I have two new books and 14 hours of a video Blues course I have written. They've been finished for over a year now. I can't bring myself to release them. Why? Because, a month after I do, they will end up on all those torrent sites for free. That's why!!

So folks, we have a problem. A very real one.
I'm withholding. I don't want to give away my work for free anymore.

I'm fed up!!

I'm not alone here. Look at all those names at the end of every film. All those people are effected, we are ALL effected.

I am only scratching the surface here. The same thievery is happening even within performance rights companies that are supposed to be collecting royalty monies for artists. Much of the money is never distributed because artists don't know its there!!!

I am but a small voice in a very large crowd.

I want to chime in and bring some more light to a very real problem with intellectual property. There is a lot of discussion going on about this very subject right now and no one seems to have an answer. I think a good start would be to shut down ALL peer to peer sites because the majority of what they do is allow people to steal intellectual property with the anonymity of the internet.

If my voice is heard and it reaches ANYONE with any influence on major computer companies, Google and the like, please shout in their deaf ears!!! Help STOP the piracy!! Don't provide the gateway!!!

Enough said,
FG Out

(share if you wish to. Translate this rant into every language, help get the word out that artists are suffering everywhere!)

User avatar
Casual Madman
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 2247
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Garland TX

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Sat May 24, 2014 4:41 pm

I will say upfront that I have downloaded MP3s from the internet. I don't have hundreds of gigs--in fact, my entire MP3 collection fits on a 16GB flash drive (with room to spare), and much of that I ripped from my own CDs.

Still: guilty.

On the other hand, I agree with pretty much everything Mr G has said. In my other spare time (when not working, playing music, or just chillin' with Mrs Madman and the fambly), I'm a writer and editor. I've edited 2 speculative fiction anthologies, and had a handful of poems and stories published (all of this for which I was financially compensated).

I have a royalty agreement on the anthologies, much like a artist will have on a music track. Every copy sold above X number, I'll get a nickel or two. That's fair; I created the concepts, collected and edited the submissions, and basically set the tone and structure of the entire collection. If they can be sold, I've earned the payday.

If seeders (or whatever they're called) start dumping free copies on the market, that's stealing from my future income. I don't make a living at writing by any stretch of the imagination (though I'm justifiably proud of my efforts)--but those occasional little checks are nice to have... One might even fund another Carvin some day.

I can only imagine the consternation of folks like Mr Gambale, or Metallica (famously anti-piracy), and others who depend on their creativity for their livelihood.

Does the model need changing? Clearly. Is legislation the answer? Probably not, though it might discourage casual downloaders like myself. Do I know the answer? Not hardly.

But I pledge right here, and signed with my real name, not to download anymore pirated material.

LANE ADAMSON
24 MAY 2014

(This rant-in-response is free to copy, paste, and share.)

User avatar
spudmunkey
Elite Carvinite
Elite Carvinite
Posts: 16092
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 24, 2014 4:55 pm


User avatar
Sharkman
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Livonia, MI

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Sharkman » Sat May 24, 2014 5:34 pm

I totally agree with Frank, and I'll go one more. Lately, a lot of people out there seem to think that musicians ought to be playing not for money, but for "exposure". Can anybody tell me how I can pay my bills or buy new equipment with exposure? When my friend's daughters say that they're hungry, can I tell them to eat my exposure?

I'm planning on recording an album this summer, and selling the songs online. Notice I said selling. I have to buy new equipment so I can record the album, and I have to pay for that new equipment with actual money. There is no Magic Microphone Fairy to bring me new microphones. 32 track digital recorders do not just fall from the sky. Magic elves do not come out of the woodwork at night and build me new effect pedals. So if any of my songs are likeable, I hope to get some money for them. I don't need any exposure, and I sure don't need anybody stealing my songs.

User avatar
spudmunkey
Elite Carvinite
Elite Carvinite
Posts: 16092
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 24, 2014 5:39 pm

Sharkman wrote:I totally agree with Frank, and I'll go one more. Lately, a lot of people out there seem to think that musicians ought to be playing not for money, but for "exposure". Can anybody tell me how I can pay my bills or buy new equipment with exposure? When my friend's daughters say that they're hungry, can I tell them to eat my exposure?


Musicians are no different than many other industries in this respect, too. Photographers, caterers, performance artists, interior designers, etc.

"Yes...please tell me how it'll be good for my photography business to photograph your plumbers' convention for free?"

User avatar
kennym9898
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 749
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Springfield, NJ

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby kennym9898 » Sat May 24, 2014 6:44 pm

The whole piracy thing has been going on longer than everyone makes it out to be. It's being blamed on the internet. It's been happening ever since anyone could go to the store and buy home equipment capable of recording. People were selling bootlegged videos and tapes decades before the internet was even around. People waited hour on end for their radio station to play their favorite song to record it because they didn't want to go out and buy it. Taped a cassette to give to their friend, there went 50 % of a sale. Tape it for 2 friends there went 66 percent of sales. The internet did however make it more readily available to find, and did take it to a much grander scale of being a problem.
Carvin SH550B, SCB6, AC375, DC700, Gibson Les Paul, Ibanez, Fender Strat, Jackson Soloist, Washburn,
Carvin V3MC, Marshall DSL40c, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Line6

User avatar
Casual Madman
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 2247
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Garland TX

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Sat May 24, 2014 7:32 pm

kennym9898 wrote:The whole piracy thing has been going on longer than everyone makes it out to be. ... People waited hour on end for their radio station to play their favorite song to record it because they didn't want to go out and buy it. Taped a cassette to give to their friend, there went 50 % of a sale. ... The internet did however make it more readily available to find, and did take it to a much grander scale of being a problem.


Back in the 70s, my friends (and I) swapped tapes (albums and mixes) frequently--it was a great way to share happiness. There were 2 BIG differences between that scenario and the current state:

(1) We were swapping analog copies of analog sources. Even with higher-end equipment, degradation was a notable issue, especially if the copies were themselves copied. Today's digital copies can be copied to virtually infinite generations and the last will sound as good as the first.

(2) We were a half-dozen or so close acquaintances. We shared interests and had a great deal of taste-overlap in our music. The usual process was not, "Here, have a copy of this so you don't have to buy it" (though that certainly happened, usually with the less affluent of us who would not have been able to afford every new release). More often, it was "Check this out--you gotta get this!" These days, with minimal effort, one can hunt down almost any download (music and ebooks most especially) and get a free copy from a total stranger.

User avatar
Jlaura76
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 145
Joined: Feb 2013

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Jlaura76 » Sun May 25, 2014 5:03 pm

thank you so much for posting this. I remember shelling out 6 grand to make a 3 cut CD. never came close to breaking even. I can't even get my closest friends to pay $1 to download it. I've been a part-time music director at a church for over 14 years. it's a paid position, but I could never make a living on it (have a full time job). As I approach burnout and have to look at possibly stepping down one day, it breaks my heart. I know I'm not as good as I'd hoped to be, but the industry I had fallen in love with just doesn't exist any more. Guys that are the best to ever pick up an instrument are still touring, some even playing pretty small venues here in Michigan (Allan Holdsworth came through Ann Arbor years ago and played in a small venue downtown).

I guess the hardest thing to realize is that the age of technology has almost eliminated the need for real people. Ouch.
"Born and raised in South Detroit (which does not actually exist)"

Carvin Guitars:
DC127T, CT6M, CT6C, AE185, LB70

Carvin amp:
Vintage 16 and V3M

Wanted:
FG1S

User avatar
arahobob
Platinum Carvinite
Platinum Carvinite
Posts: 3924
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: Oakhurst, NJ

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby arahobob » Sun May 25, 2014 5:28 pm

My favorite line from that trailer
"the perceived value of music is ZERO"

Too sad.

User avatar
Jlaura76
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 145
Joined: Feb 2013

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Jlaura76 » Sun May 25, 2014 5:55 pm

arahobob wrote:My favorite line from that trailer
"the perceived value of music is ZERO"

Too sad.


absolutely. can you imagine what would happen if sports video games started taking fans out of the games? the NFL would be up in arms, and every athlete would jump in. Musicians just don't have the priority of this society.
"Born and raised in South Detroit (which does not actually exist)"



Carvin Guitars:

DC127T, CT6M, CT6C, AE185, LB70



Carvin amp:

Vintage 16 and V3M



Wanted:

FG1S

craig.p
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 21
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: New Hampshire

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby craig.p » Mon May 26, 2014 8:05 am

I won't go into the reasons things are in the current state. I don't have the time, and anyway it'd probably get me banned from the board.

Look, the toothpaste is out of the tube. No one's going to put it back in. Recording sales used to generate income but today they no longer do. This twenty-ton fact is lag-bolted down on top of ledge the size of a football field and a half mile deep, and no one's going to budge it no matter how hard the push. Run a tornado through the place and you won't even scuff its paint, let alone move it an inch off its foundation.

Royalties can still generate income if 1) a proven framework exists to collect it, and 2) if enough cover artists discover the product, desire it, and will pay via that framework to use it. This is how it's done in the Praise & Worship game.

It doesn't matter that you excel at something. People have to want it enough. I can offer you some very nice COBOL programming. The code I write is very elegant -- almost symphonic in feel. I can do fantastic things in COBOL that surprised even my instructors 30-35 years ago. My run rate is well into three figures hourly and I get much joy from writing COBOL. So what. The market is nonexistent. (It doesn't matter whether it once did or didn't. Today it doesn't, and that's all that matters.)

You need to "run the numbers," as they say in the Accounting Department. What is the market for your product? Is there more than one market? How does each market behave today (not how did it behave in the past)? What are the payment mechanisms in each market and are they reliable? What's the unavoidable "shrinkage" (theft in the case of music) in each distribution channel? Understand these and you'll understand whether it's wise or foolish to bring your product (music) to a particular market.

After you run the numbers for each market, you decide which (if any) market you want to introduce your product into.

If your product is in an existing market and the market becomes unprofitable, then you find another market for it that will be profitable, or you shut down the product altogether and close the shop.

Markets are never static and never have been.

Distribution channels come and go, too. Sometimes a desirable product is hampered by an inefficient distribution channel.

Sometimes an efficient distribution channel provides every possible advantage to a product, but no one wants the product. Or no longer wants it. For example, good luck selling a hardcopy book on how to play bass guitar, even if you can get it from Amazon tomorrow FedEx Overnight and its content hasn't been for all intents and purposes stolen via some Don't Be Evil crew's preview scheme. Like I said, markets aren't static.

In the video, someone said (I think), "So I have to work a day job to play?" My answer is, "If the markets you've chosen for your product -- including the distribution channels -- won't compensate you sufficiently to let you live the way you want, then yep, you've pretty much nailed it."
--

User avatar
Doctor Doug
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1481
Joined: Oct 2013
Links/Contact:

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Doctor Doug » Mon May 26, 2014 9:29 am

Sharkman wrote: When my friend's daughters say that they're hungry, can I tell them to eat my exposure?



You should call your new album "Eat My Exposure!"
If you don't, I will.lol
facebook.com/hamfistrocks

User avatar
gpbarnett
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 357
Joined: Dec 2013

Re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby gpbarnett » Mon May 26, 2014 11:43 am

arahobob wrote:
What's left? Crowd funding? Should I make a video and start pan-handle my fans to provide a budget for my next album/video/book etc?



http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_ ... _of_asking - if you think of Kickstarter/crowd funding as panhandling, you are cutting yourself off from what I think is going to become the main source of income for recorded music. Kickstarter allows for tiered pricing - you can sell a lot at a cheap price, and a few with extras for a very high price. In Frank's example of blues lessons - those are a commodity with lots of competition, so he probably can't sell them at a high price point. But, he could offer at the higher levels bonuses like Skype lessons and other personalized instruction.

The genie is out of the bottle, recorded music is so easy to distribute now, that the entire business model has to change. Google and other search engines taking the listings out would most likely have limited impact, as people will still find pirate sites through social media. Artists who don't adapt are going to see significant reductions in income. There are a lot of people out there who don't have much money, but almost every artist is going to have a few fans who are well off, and will spend large amounts of money for extras. What Kickstarter (or some competitor) needs to do is allow for continuing sales with tiered pricing long after the project has been funded & delivered.

One of my favorite things an artist has done recently - Dweezil Zappa has started doing group lessons before his Zappa plays Zappa shows. At his recent Seattle show, about 18 people showed up at $75/each. I don't know what percentage of that he kept, but it is money in his pocket he wouldn't have otherwise (plus, 18 fans just became that much more loyal).

And just in case; Frank - if you actually end up reading this - thank you for working with Carvin on the FG1 - mine is the best guitar I've ever played, and I hope you got a decent cut of the sales price.

User avatar
Sharkman
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Livonia, MI

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Sharkman » Tue May 27, 2014 7:11 am

Doctor Doug wrote:
Sharkman wrote: When my friend's daughters say that they're hungry, can I tell them to eat my exposure?



You should call your new album "Eat My Exposure!"
If you don't, I will.lol


Doctor Doug, I already have a title for the album, so please, use "Eat My Exposure" and I hope it's very successful for you. Just put a "Thank you, Sharkman" somewhere on the album. You can have all the credits and royalties (after all, it's YOUR album).

User avatar
kennym9898
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 749
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Springfield, NJ

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby kennym9898 » Tue May 27, 2014 8:13 am

"I have two new books and 14 hours of a video Blues course I have written. They've been finished for over a year now. I can't bring myself to release them. Why? Because, a month after I do, they will end up on all those torrent sites for free. That's why!!

So folks, we have a problem. A very real one.
I'm withholding. I don't want to give away my work for free anymore."

I understand his frustration but the sad part is sitting on it and not releasing it isn't going to make a dime either. Releasing it sooner maybe the most profitable before there's more download site, or it maybe better to wait till there's more regulations. I've seen how slow the government is about making laws, we'll never see it in our lifetime. But chances are there's always going to be loopholes and it'll never be safe to prevent people from pirating "anything".

Release it and I'll pay for it.

Hmm, downloadable 3-D printed pizza, I think I'll pass on that one.
Carvin SH550B, SCB6, AC375, DC700, Gibson Les Paul, Ibanez, Fender Strat, Jackson Soloist, Washburn,

Carvin V3MC, Marshall DSL40c, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Line6

User avatar
ElfDude
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10687
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: In and around the lake

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ElfDude » Tue May 27, 2014 9:14 am

kennym9898 wrote:I understand his frustration but the sad part is sitting on it and not releasing it isn't going to make a dime either.


Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. Some people illegally download, but certainly not all people. I'd even doubt it's the majority.

When my favorite bands release new CDs and DVDs I buy them. I want the disc and the cover it comes in. Same with my wife, kids, and friends. Not scientific evidence, I know, but still...
Aries A6H, CS6M, SH445, Contour 66, AE185, DC135, CT4M, Bolt, SH225, LB76F, Nomad, VT16 Head, V410, Pro Bass 100
Midlife Crisis on Facebook
The Tri-Chevys on Facebook

User avatar
amon
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1094
Joined: Oct 2012

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby amon » Tue May 27, 2014 5:50 pm

ElfDude wrote:I want the disc and the cover it comes in. Same with my wife, kids, and friends.

I'm sure your wife, kids and friends are all relieved to know that you want them.



:mrgreen:

User avatar
spudmunkey
Elite Carvinite
Elite Carvinite
Posts: 16092
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby spudmunkey » Tue May 27, 2014 5:53 pm

amon wrote:
ElfDude wrote:I want the disc and the cover it comes in. Same with my wife, kids, and friends.

I'm sure your wife, kids and friends are all relieved to know that you want them.



:mrgreen:


With their covers. :)

My issue with physical media is, with nearly 2,000 CD's and hundreds of DVDs and blu-rays, I simply have no place to store them. I rip them, and then they go into a box on a shelf in the garage. :(

User avatar
ferret
Gold Carvinite
Gold Carvinite
Posts: 1352
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA

re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ferret » Tue May 27, 2014 6:00 pm

I don't buy physical media anymore, for anything. Not games, not movies, not TV, not music. I try to always use legit services to acquire these things. I have subscriptions to Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify (Yes, I actually pay), and Valve's STEAM for games. (Valve has enough of my money for a couple of Carvins, unfortunately...)

Maybe these services aren't the final answer, maybe they need adjustments... but that's the world we live in now. If you can't provide your media in an immediate on-demand fashion, the consumers will find a way around that.

I think Spud already linked to it, but several studies have already shown that piracy has a much much lower impact on the media industries than they claim. On top of that, almost every poll that tries to figure out piracy, a large majority of those who admit to downloading complain that they would have paid if it had been just been available.... but it wasn't. You know, like when you check iTunes for some band you heard and they aren't there.

Consumers are lazy and want things immediately now. If you aren't there when they check the legit service, their next stop is a torrent tracker. They aren't going to hunt any more than they have to...

The best way to fight piracy at this stage is to make your media accessible. If you don't, someone else will.

User avatar
kennym9898
Carvinite
Carvinite
Posts: 749
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Springfield, NJ

Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby kennym9898 » Tue May 27, 2014 8:31 pm

ferret wrote:"On top of that, almost every poll that tries to figure out piracy, a large majority of those who admit to downloading complain that they would have paid if it had been just been available.... but it wasn't. You know, like when you check iTunes for some band you heard and they aren't there."

Yes ITunes could use a lot more work in their search sections. You type in a search and it shows you a bunch of songs that are nothing like you searched for. I'll come up with songs or bands that don't even have one word in it's title/name of what you typed in. I understand trying to showcase some newer not so popular bands but that can be under a suggested section based on genre or whatever.

I also don't typically buy "physical" media anymore when possible, I prefer being able to put it on a hard drive. I have 3-1 terabyte hard drives I have everything backed up to just in case 1 or even 2 drives go out I still have it. Then that will be backup again, it's happened before with drives of mine.
Carvin SH550B, SCB6, AC375, DC700, Gibson Les Paul, Ibanez, Fender Strat, Jackson Soloist, Washburn,

Carvin V3MC, Marshall DSL40c, Fender Deluxe Reverb, Line6


Return to Pro Players

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests