A message from Frank Gambale

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nascarbean_97
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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby nascarbean_97 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:37 pm

It's all bad and there's always going to be pirating... But we are artists. We play through the pain.

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby bornagaincarvinite » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:04 am

That went right over my head. Sorry, I can be dense at times. Just ask my wife!
Did you give me an AP11 a while back?


Ha ha ha, you remembered! Yes and you put it to good use which is great!

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ElfDude » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:02 am

bornagaincarvinite wrote:
That went right over my head. Sorry, I can be dense at times. Just ask my wife!
Did you give me an AP11 a while back?


Ha ha ha, you remembered! Yes and you put it to good use which is great!


Good. Glad I figured it out in my brain. A few people here have donated pickups to me over the years. So, thanks again. :)
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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby bornagaincarvinite » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:18 am

It's all bad and there's always going to be pirating... But we are artists. We play through the pain.


Yes and No. There will always be some form of corruption so rather than withdraw and not produce any music, or produce music and accept the flaws of the system acting as a victim, do what d*ck Dale does and what other people have done (Paul McCartney etc) and take control of the situation and make money from it. That's all I was ever trying to say.

If people steal your music which is a lemon, then make lemonade out of it and capitalize on the exposure. Your loss, which is not right, is not that great in the long run, pennies, and since the song has only a limited life span before people get bored of it, pennies over a brief period of time. You should be in this for the long run and profit from the exposure which will make dollars for you forever.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:06 pm

bornagaincarvinite wrote:There will always be some form of corruption so rather than withdraw and not produce any music, or produce music and accept the flaws of the system acting as a victim


If you steal from me, I'm not "acting" like a victim. I've been victimized. It's not wrong-headed to object to evil. It's not stupid to think evil should be loudly and vigorously opposed.

I can give my belongings away if I choose. You can't expect to take them from me if I don't. WHAT PART OF THIS IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby arahobob » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:32 pm

A few thoughts:

- This is priceless
amon wrote:
Casual Madman wrote:Point missed again. I don't think you're capable of seeing it.


Image


- The d*ck Dale video is a great share and worth the watch.

- This has been a great thread full of interesting points of view.
I saw it as more of a Spock vs Kirk thing , myself.


I can feel where CM is coming from. It's hard to believe that I've spent my life performing and creating in an "art" where it's value really has become zero.
That's why it's ok to steal it - it's not worth anything.

It certainly seems like the deck is stacked against us at the moment, more-so than other mediums.
As technology keeps evolving more of them are feeling the sting as much as music.
I can buy $3 DVDs of movies still in the theaters.
I assume digital books can just as easily be ripped off.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby amon » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:00 pm

Casual Madman wrote:I can give my belongings away if I choose. You can't expect to take them from me if I don't. WHAT PART OF THIS IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

The part where the "thief" didn't take your belongings, but rather made for himself an exact duplicate of your belongings.

It's very hard to have a productive discussion with someone who can't (or won't) discern the legal differences between Copyright Violation and Theft. They're both crimes, but they are not one and the same crime.

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby bornagaincarvinite » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:03 pm

I consider myself Kirk!

Rather than fight Khan on his terms, pirating and all, which has more technology and means than me or any client, I have made a tactical decision to lead my client, the enterprise, into the Orion Nebulae, were shields will be down, and sensors won't work (because by giving away the song in exchange for the exposure and $$$ renders the pirating absolutely worthless yet makes me and the client more money). The odds will be even, no the odds are better than even.

I do get Casual Madman's point and I respect it, but I do not agree with his solution. That's all. Rather than fight the opponent on his terms were the opponent wins and all I can do is cry foul, I decided to take action to make the opponent impotent.

By identifying what is really of value which is not the song, but the actual person and his exposure, and then giving away the song for free defeats the pirate without me sustaining any injury, without even having to fight. I outsmarted my opponent in my nebulae, and the worse that happens is that I gain more exposure and make money on merchandising than I would have on the song. Its a win win situation!

Remember as Kirk, I do not like to lose. I do not believe in the no win situation! So changing the rules of the game is expected.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby arahobob » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:10 pm

amon wrote:
Casual Madman wrote:I can give my belongings away if I choose. You can't expect to take them from me if I don't. WHAT PART OF THIS IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

The part where the "thief" didn't take your belongings, but rather made for himself an exact duplicate of your belongings.


Yet another excellent point

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby bornagaincarvinite » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:34 pm

The part where the "thief" didn't take your belongings, but rather made for himself an exact duplicate of your belongings.


The act of duplication is not the crime, the act of not paying for the duplication is the crime. After all once a song is performed or recorded technically anyone can then duplicate it as long as they pay a fee for licensing, supposedly the standard mechanical rate but usually that is always discounted. That's why I say we are talking about pennies. Really, I mean pennies.

Its Sescap, BMI and Ascap's job to determine what your share of the pennies are but they are even more crooked than the pirates. These agencies will not publish how they determine what song is performed or played where and what the artist is entitled to. They make major assumptions and are heavily weighted towards existing artists or those artists that have ...... the MOST EXPOSURE!!!!! The assumption is that an artist with greater exposure must be getting greater play hits which is not necessarily true. I know bands that have songs on local and college radio and get zip. Where are you BMI???? SASCAP????

Madonna may not have released a single in years but she will do something provocative that gets he a lot of exposure and then all the agencies will factor this in and actually pay her for presumed play hits on past releases just due to the publicity. ITS A CRAZY SYSTEM.

I could go on and on. And don't get bummed out. It happens in every business. I have a client who developed an algorithm that generates related advertising when you do a google search. You have seen the type. You go to a website like Carvin and check out guitars and then you sign onto your social media and suddenly there is an add for Carvin guitars. How did this other site know that? How did they know you like guitars, and how come so fast, literally seconds. When he initially developed it I told him, please lets take it to google. He refused for a bunch of reasons, mainly on principal, and took it to a smaller company which was, you guessed it, acquired by google along with the technology and now my clients wants to sue google. I told him to watch the Wrath of Khan and lets discuss another strategy!

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ElfDude » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:50 pm

I wish this forum had "like" buttons. :)
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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:06 pm

bornagaincarvinite wrote:The act of duplication is not the crime, the act of not paying for the duplication is the crime.


Finally, at least a marginal admission that a criminal act is taking place.

As to the rest: In 1977, I could have gotten floor tickets to see Led Zeppelin for $9.50 (had I not gotten into an argument with my Mom, one of the dumber things I've done in my life). The PRESENCE album cost me $5.98 at the local record store (remember those?).

30 years later, the O2 reunion concert tickets went for roughly $250. That's an increase of more than two thousand six hundred percent (and much less than the average ticket price about the same time for tours by the Eagles or Rolling Stones, by the way). About that time, the MOTHERSHIP compilation CD could be had for about $20, an increase of a little over 300%.

Meanwhile, the cumulative actual inflation rate from 1977-2007 (based on the US Consumer Price Index) was 241.47% -- so which numbers are out of whack? And why?

And does anyone seriously contend that led Zeppelin were not printing money in 1977?

No. It just came to pass that the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" reunion tour taught the industry that tours no longer had to be loss leaders for album sales--they could be moneymakers in their own right (at least for bands folks really, really wanted to see). And "a rising tide lifts all boats," so now you can't go see Third Eye Blind at your local House of Blues for less than $50 a pop.

But a multi-million selling album can still bring in stinkpots of money--when it's not being pirated by selfish hoards of spoiled, conscience-less freeloaders who think they are entitled to anything they want on the webinet for free because they want it.

And for some artists who are unable to tour or perform, royalties on earlier work might well be nearly their only source of income. (Jason Becker, anyone? Ah, screw him, he's just a worthless cripple who ought to have died a long time ago, anyway, right? Why should he earn any income from the product of his prime creative years? I want it FREE!!!!!!)

Pfaugh. Disgust overwhelms me.

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby gumbynotpokey » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:11 am

Last night I was watching a John Coltrane documentary (I've been listening to almost nothing but hard bop and modal jazz for the last year and a half, with the exception of some Metheny and Jim Hall, etc) and was next in the wiki and Amazon sites figuring out what my next CD purchase would be, knowing it'll be 2 more of Coltrane's. "Blue Train" was only 5.98 by some supplier. I was a bit stunned. Now mind you, I've been buying jazz CD's for the last year and a half, and I know what these classic albums go for. But you know what? Every single time I see the price that low I get sticker shock (that it's so low). Then, my thinking kicks in. When my thinking kicks in, I tell myself, "Get the 11.98 one from a different supplier. The 5.98 one is probably some unethical scam artist". (But I never even think of out-and-out piracy; it's just that 5.98 seems too low to trust).

I'll be getting the 11.98 one.

Call me a sucker.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby amon » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:35 am

Casual Madman wrote:Finally, at least a marginal admission that a criminal act is taking place.

But still no admission from you that you are conflating what crime is being committed with whatever crime you want to call it.

I got my first speeding ticket on a road where the speed I was going is now legal. Marrying outside one's race used to be illegal. We're quickly discovering that illegalizing Marijuana is a costly and stupid thing. Being gay is no longer illegal (well, other than in a few towns in Arkansas). And so on.

In the case of online piracy, we're also dealing with the mass proliferation of affordable technology. Microsoft's goal was a personal computer on every desk, but now people carry that computer in their pocket. A law just went into effect allowing consumers to untether their devices from their service providers. Freedom — whether to do good or to do ill — is going to expand, not contract. You can't shove the technological genie back into its bottle and cork it with a law.


Go back and read this article:

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/7/5878603/tay ... and-demand

Keep reading it until you understand it.

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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby voodoo jeff » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:21 am

Owning intellectual property, specifically defined as *the legally recognized exclusive rights to creations of the mind*, means exactly that....exclusive rights to said creation. That means the right to control it`s distribution.

Get this, because it`s the way it really is: When you purchase a song from Itunes (or wherever else), you are NOT, BY ANY MEANS, BUYING THE SONG. What you are buying is the license to play that song, royalty free, as many times as you`d like. YOU ARE NOT buying the right to distribute the song.

Argue against it all you want. Facts are facts.

And someone earlier mentioned Steve Vai`s participation in all of this. Well, here`s another fact that blows that whole shooting match right out of the water: His albums on Sony are all encoded with a code that makes his songs unplayable if copied. It was a conscious, active decision to do so. As with anything the "code" has been cracked by the persistently criminal minded and you will see his stuff on torrent sites from time to time, but let me assure you, he did NOT "allow" it. (I`ve been friends with people in the Vai camp for 19 years. I know what I`m talking about on this).

Yes, piracy is a crime. It`s not "interpreted" as a crime, it`s a crime. Yes, it affects some artists DRASTICALLY (no, not all. There`s a significant bell curve). Yes, there are alternative ways to make money in the industry. That doesn`t make it less of a crime. To argue otherwise is ignorant, uninformed, and in my opinion....downright buffoonery. But hey, keep fighting the good fight.
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re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ferret » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 am

I really wish people would recognize that no one in this thread has claimed piracy is not a crime. Not a single time has anyone said it was ok, that it wasn't wrong, that it wasn't a crime.

All that's been said is that it's a reality that must be considered as part of doing business successfully.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby ElfDude » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:14 am

ferret wrote:I really wish people would recognize that no one in this thread has claimed piracy is not a crime. Not a single time has anyone said it was ok, that it wasn't wrong, that it wasn't a crime.


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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:36 pm

ferret wrote:I really wish people would recognize that no one in this thread has claimed piracy is not a crime. Not a single time has anyone said it was ok, that it wasn't wrong, that it wasn't a crime.


amon wrote:In the case of online piracy, we're also dealing with the mass proliferation of affordable technology. ... Freedom — whether to do good or to do ill — is going to expand, not contract. You can't shove the technological genie back into its bottle and cork it with a law.


The entire post from which that second quote is taken in essence says, "It may be illegal, but it's going to happen anyway, so suck it, bitches."

voodoo jeff wrote:Yes, piracy is a crime. It`s not "interpreted" as a crime, it`s a crime. Yes, it affects some artists DRASTICALLY (no, not all. There`s a significant bell curve). Yes, there are alternative ways to make money in the industry. That doesn`t make it less of a crime. To argue otherwise is ignorant, uninformed, and in my opinion....downright buffoonery.


Someone who gets it. Welcome to the side of Angels. We're outnumbered, but not wrong.

The rest of you--go vote yourself some more bread and circuses. Let us know how that works out for you.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby amon » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:16 pm

Casual Madman wrote:The entire post from which that second quote is taken in essence says, "It may be illegal, but it's going to happen anyway, so suck it, bitches."

When actual quotes don't support your position, make up new ones.


Casual Madman wrote:Someone who gets it. Welcome to the side of Angels. We're outnumbered, but not wrong.

You are wrong in your conflating Copyright Violation with Theft. They are two distinct crimes. But I've also heard conflations of piracy with physical assault and rape, so at least you haven't gone that far.


Casual Madman wrote:The rest of you--go vote yourself some more bread and circuses. Let us know how that works out for you.

Do you have some other solution to offer besides finger-wagging? If so, we would love to hear it.

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Re: re: A message from Frank Gambale

Postby Casual Madman » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:05 pm

amon wrote:
Casual Madman wrote:The entire post from which that second quote is taken in essence says, "It may be illegal, but it's going to happen anyway, so suck it, bitches."

When actual quotes don't support your position, make up new ones.


Casual Madman wrote:Someone who gets it. Welcome to the side of Angels. We're outnumbered, but not wrong.

You are wrong in your conflating Copyright Violation with Theft. They are two distinct crimes. But I've also heard conflations of piracy with physical assault and rape, so at least you haven't gone that far.


Casual Madman wrote:The rest of you--go vote yourself some more bread and circuses. Let us know how that works out for you.

Do you have some other solution to offer besides finger-wagging? If so, we would love to hear it.


Point one: I said, "in essence." That is, "paraphrased to display the attitude." Nothing was made up (except, apparently, your mind).

Point two: Taking what does not belong to you is theft. "Copyright violation" and "theft of intellectual property" are, for all intents and purposes, interchangeable. To pretend they are not is facile, or perhaps fatuous.

Point three: I thought my solution was pretty obvious. To quote Google, "Don't be evil." Seriously. It's not that hard.

There's gonna be a conflagration of indignation, regardless of the concatenation of your conflation, if the ruination of our creations by pilferization becomes an acceptable situation.


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