1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

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Doctor Turn
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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:44 am

On the Hagstrom necks.. speaking strictly about the Super Swede, I probably mentioned that the necks are thin.. but I meant that not in terms of nut width, but in terms of profile depth. The profile is a very flat D tending over towards a squashed U.

It's probably one of the most comfortable necks I've played, especially among those that fall into the Lester category of things. There was one reviewer who went over one of these reissue Swedes and said something like "theoretically, based on the string height settings, the neck relief that's set, the intonation, etc, these strings should absolutely be fretting out and buzzing, but it's clean up and down the neck. Amazing."

And it's true.. what it is is the micro level control the player has during setup, and that the truss continues to exert after setup, and it's all owing to the unique length and stability of that "H-Expander" rod, which is like an I beam running from the nut literally all the way to the neck pickup at the glue in joint.

It's definitely wider than my vintage Carvin neck, which isa very unusual profile. Another squashed D or U, but what makes it so unusual and love-it/hate-it is this chunk running along the underside at the edges. Chunky under both E strings. So it's narrow at the nut versus a Les Paul standard, but at the edges where the underside comes around and up to meet the fretboard, there's unexpected chunk there. It's super unusual. It took some getting used to when i first started playing it, but now it's total second nature. Small price to pay for what I still believe is the Les Paul design, perfected in all aspects. Very interested to see how aCS6 in solid koa will stack up. And yes! When I do the new CS it will be with the thicker neck option.

The neck that I'm making a large adjustment in my hand muscles play is the vintage HIIN. That is a narrow neck, maybe around an Ibby or a Carvin, but it has a decent amount of chunk on the back. Profile is a very unusual D, not a baseball bat, but unexpectedly chunky nonetheless. I have big hands so I prefer thicker necks, so it's not the thickness, it's how unexpected the shape is to my hands. In the catalog of twenty ish electric guitars I've owned over my life, this neck has something about it that makes it about the most challenging to adjust to. But unlike a lot of players who immediately nix the idea of a guitar, even if they love the sound, if they don't immediately feel comfortable the neck... I'm willing to take it in. It keeps my hands acoustic/bass ready, and also makes jamming on someone else's instrument easy. So this old HIIN is a keeper!

Fender V profiles: I'm with you on that... Not only the V profile, but almost all of their low radius necks. It's like playing on the roof of a house. I'm much more comfortable on a Les Paul style neck.

I'm yet to spend any time with a modern Hagstrom with humbuckers. The pickups on this vintage girl from 72... Same pickups as on the vintage Swede line, the Jimmy, the seventies Viking, and they are pure (stealing your term) eargasm. I can't speak to the reissue buckers except to say I like what I've heard. But if they're not cutting it, why not stick some 57 Classics in there? That would likely sound amazing.

I REALLY wish Gibson would put out, as an individual pickup for sale, the glorious Custom Bucker. Alnico THREE. Weakest magnet between 2, 3 and 5. I think they are they best PAF they've ever created in the modern era. They usually wind up on the really special limited editions coming out of the custom shop. Check out the sound on this sucker here, which is Gibsons version of a sort of Super Swede... Long scale Les Paul.. double bound like the custom... Custom buckers... Guy isn't the best player but listen to the tone those buckers are pushing out:

https://youtu.be/05oFVc83C4w

Lastly, when I do the CS6, yep it will be all koa. I wanted a cs3 in koa without a top (prefer topless guitars which is why the Special is probably my favorite Lester), would have been built just like my old DC... But Mike said they couldn't get this grade of koa thick enough to complete the carved top. So it will be koa body plus top, with a sub charge thrown in for their acquiring/using a very specific type of koa with a certain kind of vertical striped, veiny figure. That kind of figure usually signals a miraculous instrument.

If I didn't get it in 100℅ koa then I would revert to plan B, which is a solid Korina CS in vintage yellow... Basically inspired by this Korina beauty (which is spoiled by the Moderne headstock. Kind of like the way when Gibson finally came out with a symmetrical double cut, the 400 XPL Les Paul standard, they put the Explorer headstock on it making it thoroughly retarded. Here's the template for the Korina LP, without showing the headstock.

Image
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:15 am

This is frickin awesome: great vintage clip of Joe Walsh playing Rocky Mountain Way live in 1972.. any Walsh fan is gonna be familiar with it. But what's so cool is he plays the vast bulk of the song on a gorgeous natural mahogany Swede w/standard reverse mount buckers, then for the Talk Box section he's handed a Les Paul... Then once that section is done, back to the Hagstrom. Can't really compare them since he's using the box on the Gibson..

https://youtu.be/TYvmrxBUvsQ

It's just an all around great clip of a great player in his prime, back when great wood for guitars was plentiful.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:32 pm

Well, the reason I historically have hated Bigsby's is rearing its ugly head on the Viking's Tremar. Won't stay in tune. Same Tremar on the SS and it has issues too but not nearly as bad. New strings and no idea what kind so will give it a few more days but if I so much as touch that tremolo, it's out of tune. There is none of the BINK stuff with a bridge or nut slip. Graphite nut and roller bridge so not getting the BINK slip. It does have a peculiar tendency [leaving the tremolo alone] to change pitch if you play a note and just let it ring you can hear the pitch change => tune, flat, sharp, flat, tune, sharp etc.

Amazing someone dug up that old video of Walsh . . . little known fun fact, he is from Wichita, thank you very much!

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:54 pm

Send the Viking back while you still can. It shouldn't be doing that. Mine will go out of tune, but I have to yank on it a lot, like any other non locker vintage style. Then I'll have to tune up. But no more or less than, say, a vintage Strat. It shouldn't be doing that if you just touch it.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:35 pm

Yeah, already been in touch with the shop I bought it from. Their guitar tech took an extra Xgiving day off so will be back tomorrow. I told them I was willing to burn a set of my D'Ad 10s to see if it is string related OR I might even discover a problem by restringing it? But, I am just waiting to hear back from them at this point. They do accept returns within 14 days.

Decent enough and properly setup nut [and none are locking], my Carvins and Beck Strat with just locking tuners are not only rock solid to play but will quite often still be in tune when I haven't played them in a while. Even my 355 with the junk Maestro is pretty solid [NOW] with some nut setup work, locking tuners I added and a Stewmac Roller Bridge. I can even use the Maestro for "subtle" tremolo without issues. Now, with the stock tuners and bridge? Nearly as bad as this Viking. It really should have been returned when I bought it but, was/is such a tone monster, the engineer in me "wanted to fix it" to a fault. By the time I did, AL230 Lifeson Axcess popped up on my screen just doing a search on MF for "Les Paul Axcess", so that was like a sign from the guitar gods that it was a paired match made in guitar heaven just for me . . . Now if I can just get them sold period for what they are worth? I do NOT have the "sell" gene.

My hands are hurting quite badly tonight so I couldn't play long but, in 20 minutes or so, I had to retune the SS twice. That is frankly too much considering I wasn't exactly abusing it. Now, the Viking, I'll just play a particular lick doing some bends in the process = retune. In 20 minutes? Probably retuned 20 times. Love the tone though. My 355 is a tad more powerful than the Viking which is surprising because [I think] those Hag HBs are supposed to be hotter [??]. Could be some power loss just in the junk tone pots? But, I like the tone well enough. It is simply unplayable as is.

Good lord, that Viking pup selector is the most ca-chunk-y switch I think I've seen on a guitar. As with the heavy duty volume/tone knobs, etc., it seems like it was designed to flip a 240VAC relay or something? Might have to swap it out just because it doesn't operate smoothly and makes so much noise . . . CLACK! CLACK-CLACK! It does work though . . .

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:49 pm

Eegads.. I suspect these are the terrors of floor models. I got mine at 625, but Ash ordered it from the warehouse for me and had it shipped to NYC, since they didn't have any in stock anywhere. So I got a brand new model untouched except the QC check at Hag (included the checklist and the signature w my guitar w all the hang tags), and my rep at Sam Ash who set it up before I came.

Floor demo models with a trem.. I didn't even think about that fact. Unless you got a bad model (quite possible since it's MIC, people say maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 will need to be sent back.. I wound up taking the chance because I consider Gibson to have worse odds than that at triple the price), it's probably the result of an endless parade of guys just yanking and wheedling and cheedling on that thing for who knows how long. Mine tunewise is no better or worse than a Big or a Fender vintage; where it trumps the Big is the super easy feel, it's as easy to waggle as a Kahler or a Floyd, which I found amazing. Most reviews I've read on it suggest the same thing that it's an upgrade to a Big.

On the switch, dunno. I played one of the SE 24.75 swedes w a three way for a touch, and the switch just sounded like a switch. But the rotary on mine let off that classic irritating rotary *pop* which is quite annoying, and put me on the path to the massive overhaul that I did, gutting the pots and the rotary for a three way and some good 500K's which we turned to 3 volumes and a master tone.

If you'd like I can record myself playing through the settings and using the trem, and ring open chords, play again w the trem, ring open chords, so you can see how it should sound when functioning properly. It does go out of tune eventually, but not on the scale you're experiencing.

The main thing is that you're happy. Maybe you should jettison both of them? If you like the sound and the neck but can't stand this one I'd suggest ordering a fresh one played by no one else to make sure all is as should be. (It's rapidly turning into the most comfortable neck in my stable, even more so than my Carvin, my hands love it, and the pickups/sound in general is a must-keep for me.. I'm liking the whole setup of the long scale on a Lester style guitar I'm seriously considering either one of these vintage examples, or one of these European made beauties with Lundgren stock pups, or one of these Gibson beasties, which are the CustomBucker loaded beasts from Gibby). If Carvin made an equivalent, the game might be over right there.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:52 pm

Oh, I am not giving up on the SS yet. These P-pups alone are worth it. If the tuning on it gets worse, I may explore just going hardtail as the pups and the tri-pup config of those pups are bee's knees! :applause:

Pitbull has another Viking Deluxe, same color, everything so I asked their tech to just set it up, tune it up, and play it for 30 minutes. If he is regularly reaching for the tuners, then there is something perhaps with the Viking Deluxe Tremar, longer scale [??], something which sadly means sending that one back. If the other one stays in tune, though, then we can try an exchange as I otherwise like the guitar fine.

On the selling front . . . SIGH! Like I said, I do NOT have the SALES gene. Over on Reverb, I reduced my Egnater Rebel 30 head a full $100 for a week through [yesterday] and it had 12 watchers but no buyers. Price range for this amp used is $450-550 [$799 new] so I set it initially at $550 so I could come down if necessary, dropped it all the way to $450 for a week [with a BUMP and a 20% OFF BOLDED NOTE so the watchers all got notified about the change] but it reverted back to $550 today. Also have it on several guitar forums . . . nothing. Same with my pedals. They are 1/2 price Blackstar Dual and Blackstar Boost [highly rated, I certainly liked them] but again . . . watchers but no buyers.

And if I cannot sell a $50 pedal, how will I ever sell my expensive Gibbies when the time comes??

Been trying to sell a brand new still in box Sony in dash stereo for 3 months on several sites, $75 off from the online new price . . . nothing! :wall:

SATAN, would you like cherry or grape on your snow cone?

And, boy, did I crap all over YOUR poor Hag thread . . . sorry! :oops:

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:07 pm

Hey, my HIIN was just a conversation starter.. that's why I added "And Others" to the title... it's just sorta become a clearing house for Hagstrom stuff. There are so few of us who know the brand here in the states that we really don't need more than one thread! :laughhard: :wall: :wall:

Those Northen Series Hags are when all MIC variables are thrown out the window and you're pretty much guaranteed killer pots, killer Alnico II (not V, and thus more vintage thang to them) pups special made for these guitars and not available on anything else, made for Hag special by Joh Lundgren, a killer 10mm flame top (I think mine and the old Dueces had a full top, but I think they've moved to veneers. I could take the pups out and check.. who knows? I may have a veneer too. I'm not 100% clear). The MIC stuff is typically "Wow, if you get a good one, you've got something easily on par w a LP for a third of the price," with the caveat that the pots are meh and the pups, it's up to you w the Custom 58 (seem more on a par w the 480/489 series than a true PAF). BTW the pups on the Viking are not the Custom 58's but modified "HJ" jazzier buckers for the SH's. These made in Bohemia (a 50 year old luthier there) "Northen" series are supposedly really on the money instruments.

But if you think it's tough to get regular Hags here in the states, try buying a Northen Series equivalent (Swedes and SS only are made). The only in states dealer I'm aware of beyond a special order thru a music store is:
https://www.amazon.com/Hagstrom-Norther ... 3D9HTK3ZFJ

That's standard pricing for new, here in the US, w the non flamed top. The "flame" issue is a couple hundred more. Everything else I've found listed here in the states from other sites online where you can order are used Northen Swedes, no Super Swedes.

Keep us posted how it goes!
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:43 pm

Btw just caught something you wrote.. it's the Super Viking that is the long scale. The regular Viking is 24.75. the Deluxe just means rectangle inlays instead of dots, and the Tremar is just it comes with the Tremar.

Super Swede and Super Viking are the long scale version of each.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:27 pm

You are correct, but I actually knew that. My VD is across the room on its perch. I just turned and looked at my SS when I wrote that generalizing that they were both the same . . .

So, now we know I have the one of one "thru-neck CS6s" in a thread comment after playing my TL60 and "a long scale VD" by looking at the SS. :oops:

Don't know if it's the auto-immune attacking my brain or just some of the drugs I take [perhaps both?] . . . Felt good enough so I went to town today to get the wife a cordless Dyson, new pillows for the bed, and a new sheet set w/pillow cases for them at Bed Bath and Beyond but got out to the road and realized I forgot the 20% off coupons [worth $100 on that Dyson alone]. So, I grabbed the trash bin out at the road that had been dumped already and threw it in the truck, back up our long lane to the house, went in and grabbed the coupons, came out and sat them down on the top step to unload the trash bin, got in and drove off with them now sitting on the top step in the garage. Got about 4 miles away before I realized the second brain fart.

Pretty hard to believe I did actually manage 2 undergrad and 1 grad degree with honors, huh? :laughhard:

Of course, that was more than a few years back . . . :think:

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:15 pm

Hey we all make them. No big deal.

Any news from the store?
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:11 pm

Well, naturally, the first response was lube the nut and the bridge not bothering to even look they had sold me a VD with a graphite nut and a roller so then it is down to trying new strings and then just returning it.

Somewhat ironic that the SS is purely poorly strung and it is the one that stays in tune MUCH better. So, I am going to restring it PROPERLY hoping that it might be good . . . and I hope so as I do NOT want to lose those pups! Nor, frankly, do I want to lose the tri-pup config of those pups. I really do hope to get something recorded I can post.

The VD is strung quite well, almost perfectly. But, I do a thing where there is one wind under the string with the rest over to kind of serve as a clamp? Going to give that a try . . .

Maybe just maybe I need to just stop calling it . . . VD? :think:

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:31 am

Lol. Anyhow, after coming home from work late last night, I sat down for just shy of six minutes, plugged direct into the board so there'd be no air between the strings and the ear. Put a touch of compression so the notes will ring longer, and put a little hall reverb with some high end accentuation so that the tuning and overtones would be accented. This way you could hear the tuning good as possible.

This was just one take off six minutes of me just doing mindless unimpressive noodling and yanking and cranking on the Tremar. Almost six minutes of it, no edits and it's either the G or the B string that seemed to finally go a micro tone out of tune. I pretty much abused the thing! And this is pretty much my usual experience. You can use this as a guideline with your guys on how it sounds when working properly. It's completely stock, nothing was done to bridge or nut.. the only customizations were on the selector and the pots.

Again, just meaningless drifting with no melody, with a moment of the chords from song FLICKERING LIGHTS in there. Neck and middle together, for hum cancelling quiet.

Share link:

https://app.box.com/s/8iqj8s2yvhurb0pgue9txyoxbghx5o6i
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:09 pm

OK, so mainly because of what Lupus has done to my hands, I pretty much $uk as a player anymore but my ear is still quite good. I can hear your guitar start to have G-B problems about 36 secs in. Would have no doubt been more pronounced wah-wah-wah-wah stuff going on playing dirty using those strings together in a chord. And those strings are primarily what I am experiencing too though they all do it. I figured that it is just, with what I play, I bend those particular strings more than all others, then D, then high e, then A etc so G-B get the most abuse.

After properly restringing my SS to no avail, I have sadly asked both sellers for a return request at this point. I hate that as I otherwise love both guitars [especially those P90s!!!! and like you the necks are about perfect for my hands] and perhaps would be happy with a hardtail version of each? I even told them that so see if they come back with anything? But, like I said, my Carvins, Strat, and the most recent Godin addition too BTW are rock solid tremolo guitars the way I play them. They ALL have locking tuners. But I also just barely tapped my SS neck on the back of the couch here [maybe a 2" drop] and had to retune all 6 strings over that. So, I think this is a part Tremar, part tuners, part neck problem that in my case won't allow me to complete even one song without reaching for a tuner.

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:51 pm

Are you telling me that you're experiencing what you heard on my recording (there is a moment where it is a micro tone out of tune and then it returns) that caused you to send it back, calling it defective? I yanked and wanked on that thing so hard in a completely ridiculous, unnatural constant way and nothing even got to a half step out after six minutes.

If these are the problems your experiencing, then I think you've just been away from non locking, true vintage for a very long time. I've never had a Strat or big anywhere near that stable.

The finest Les Paul with no tremolo is easily on a par with this, and actually typically worse on a G string especially just with finger bends, the legendary irritant of all non locking Gibsons (I was just talking about the legendary problems with G strings especially on LP guitars with arahoBob on another thread). Over the past twelve months I must have played over a hundred LP Standards and R's and they all do the same thing with natural bends. G strings are the special hell of every Les Paul style guitar bend.

But, you must decide, but I was sure your response after hearing my recording was going to be the opposite... For a non locking vintage setup with me going unmusically berserk, which probably did some umbrage to my springs, I was certain that you were going to suggest my bridge was different and that my old roller version must Trump the new one.

Do you truly think you can do what I did on any non locker and stay 100℅ completely in tune with out a micro tones variance?

Just so we're clear, I'm not angry, I'm just astonished. You have a right to your opinion however. But I would love to hear the non locking trem recording which can take six minutes of just deliberate dumping slack and pulling over and over and not lose a micro tone.

Observe the unique hell in simple non locking hard tail land:

https://www.google.com/search?q=g+strin ... e&ie=UTF-8
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:19 pm

No, I should have qualified my statement with "my Hags become completely unplayable before the end of just one song."

Just pointing out what my ear hears.

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:29 am

Got the Saturday Night Specials in my CS6 tonight. Broke the golden rule assuming that there was an industry standard with pup wire color code so I hooked them up just like the S22s and now I am split when they should be humbuckers and vice versa but they do sound good . . . so get to redo that tomorrow.

Do it twice Garth :wall:

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:51 am

I've been eyeballing a set of DiMarzio PAF Masters... I'm in that state again where I'm staring down my 150 again. I'm thinking of just doing the bridge pickup and dinking out the 22SD (which is a new generation pup anyhow after the old one went on me 2 years ago) and sticking it in there.

I've just been in a much more vintage output head space lately.

PS: no more non locking, vintage style recommends from me lol. If you would send back what you heard in that recording, you definitely need an extremely good set of locking sperzels and whatever modern tremolo you like best with a locking nut or flip locks. Vintage without a lock is never ever going to stay 100℅ perfectly in tune after a single song with moderate abuse. But I will say that I've been playing for 40 years, and the Tremar on this medium priced Hag is about the most stable vintage style I've played. It's genuinely surprising, and outstanding. A lot has to do with the TUSQ nut and the Wilkinson roller bridge, I just cannot find a thing to complain about. You can hear me leaning even on the G string, returning to strum an E chord to illustrate tuning, and it almost never strays into "stage unacceptable," and at the very end I strum more chords and it's still in tune.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby canon_mutant » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:26 pm

The vintage PAF thing is just age catching up I think Doc. I used to choose amps and guitar pups based on how well they sounded dirty. Now, though I still play just classic rock and blues, I am into how well they sound perfectly clean and ironically that will usually get me the dirty vibe I am looking for too.

If my Hags were doing what yours is, Doc, I'd be keeping both of them. I think you are confusing the sensitivity of my ear to tonal variation as being the problem. The SS I think has a neck issue as just the lite tap on the back of the couch knocked it completely out of tune. This was a body on my lap, let go of the neck to keep my nearly blind, senior citizen, Toy Manchester from falling off the couch so the neck literally just dropped like 2" onto a lightly padded upholstered couch back. Had 4 strings out of tune.

But, I grabbed my poor Godin that I haven't played in probably 3 weeks off of its perch . . . still in tune. Now, I don't judge a guitar by being in tune after sitting on the perch for 3 weeks but compare that to I cannot complete playing one song with either of these Hags without reaching for a tuner or tuners? The VD I cannot even make it 1/4 through a song. You bend strings or touch the tremar on it and it immediately requires a tune up. The SS will take more . . . BTW, I asked them if they had another one or could get another one to just do an exchange and they said they didn't.

I will miss those pups . . .

Won't ship until Monday, so I'm open to suggestions. Both necks "look" fine. I think locking tuners might help a little if there were any available for Hags but I think there are perhaps some build issues with both. The VD will vary tone by mere pressure on the top with your forearm. Kept thinking I was touching the tremar or bridge with my forearm but no just the top. It either has something not right internally on the body or has a really weak top.

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Re: 1972 Hagstrom HIIN OT and others....

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:49 pm

Sounds like they had these two lemons or overused demo models sitting there for God knows how long, and don't have anything to replace them with. I've definitely read and heard that there are some odds that you'll get a bad one, but never due to the Tremar. Surprising, but it's a learning experience I guess. Maybe the hoped they found a home for them... If they were both already unboxed, and they played like that, they may have even been returns rather than demos. I could link in demos of regular non store guys yanking on their Tremar in amateur videos, but you've probably seen them too, and I don't want to come off like a promoter.. I just feel bad.

This guy was who convinced me, after I wanted to the Swede owing to the sound, to go ahead and order an Asian guitar hatt I hadn't played before... To go ahead at this advanced phase of my musical life and special order a frickin MIC axe.. His admonition at almost exactly 3:30 ..


https://youtu.be/MUZpiQk02xY

Convinced me to pull the trigger. And luckily it paid off for me. If you try again, I'd have them order it for you straight from the dealer in the USA/Hag, which is (I think) AMS... That's where they bought mine for me since Ash didn't have my model anywhere in the whole network of ash stores. It was an older one with the previous bridge, but it was factory new and the things been a champ and roars on my recordings.

It's funny, I sat down and did some recordings w my 150, and once again my tone sounds better than all those 59's I drool for, and once again I said to myself, "What was I thinking?" It's just restlessness and being spoiled by this perfect Les Paul style Carvin. It just doesn't get better!
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1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
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