Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

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Doctor Turn
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:25 am

Good catch! I didn't even notice that.

That's one of the things I don't like about the Supreme (and generally don't like "tops" on backs of guitars. It adds unnecessary weight to glitz up an area most people won't see, and jack the price up). Not to mention the insane pain it must be to get to your pots and capacitors. I don't mind binding on the back of the body a la LP Customs, it creates a unique look when viewed straight on to see that double bound look.

Should be an M22 SD under his palm to match the DiMarzio in the neck.

Image
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:58 pm

I have seen heaven today. And it is called "The 2008 Summerjam Les Paul LTD" by the custom shop.

It's a gold top BURST scheme, opening out into raw maple flame. I wanted to die.. some guy on FB in a LP forum posted one of these:

Image
Image

Maple neck which I'm ho hum on for a LP build but so what. Variety is very good.
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Only 50 made:
Image
And I hate every one of those 50 who own them.
Multipiece neck:
Image
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:00 pm

Image

All fitty
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1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Casual Madman » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:49 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:Eight grand for a "Slash Anaconda Burst".
Fuh fuh FUGly? These guys are losing it, like big time.


Wow, there's an argument I'll have with someone all day long. While the price-point borders on -- OK, barrels over without touching the brakes -- obscene, there's nothing remotely wrong with the aesthetics of the Anaconda burst.

Of course, I might be biased.

Image

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:53 am

I should been more specific... I think the top is fugly, for that kind of price. The color of the burst itself is... Just a dark green burst. I can go either way on it. (Luv your Classic btw. I flirted strongly with buying one when they were first released. They sound great.)

Gibson is in trouble. They're just not doing well at all.

https://www.strata-gee.com/gibson-brand ... d-default/

This is what I think could cure their problems, and relatively quickly.

They need to get back down to earth and stop pricing their guitars as though they come to us straight from gods hands.

If they first off developed a direct model with their custom shop, and made these Collectors Choice and R6-0's affordable to the average player (there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to sell them for between two and three grand instead of four to eight grand), so many people who have wanted to play a beautiful 59 replica, etc, would spike though the roof. Make them affordable to the average middle class/lower middle class player, and stop pretending that just because you have a rich history that there's some magic fairy dust in them that justifies the extra two to three grand being charged versus a Kiesel, a fender, guild, a Hagstrom Northen, and an endless litany of excellent guitars available to the buyer at half the price.

Sell an R6-0 at 2500. Sell a current model Custom or Standard for about two grand... And you would see parades of people coming to dump their money into your hands. They're just so stupid, in a world where the number of guitar players seems to be in a valley rather than a peak, they release the products that most players would want in out- of -reach prices in this 1) current economy, 2) job market, 3) unbearably high cost of living. Where do they think all these young American guitar players are who can pay above 4k for a LP.. with middling flame maple tops versus ones they could get from a Carvin, a Heritage, a Godin, Hamer, etc. Where do they think all of these wealthy new young guitar players reside?

They need to get real about their pricing, come down off of the mythical pedestal they've placed themselves up on (Gibson: "ZOMG! But that's not possible cuz Page Peter Green Ronnie Montrose Kosoff and cuz Clapton Scholz Frehley Zappa Fripp and all those beautiful Wittrocks I mean like how could we possible?"

The answer is simply, "Just like every other guitar company with an impressive resume. " You keep adding more names to the list by getting the best of your current instruments into the hands of young players today.

People applauded Gibson for putting out these affordable little bolt neck poplar bodied (for example) guitars that have a passing resemblance to a Lester or a Firebird, and selling them at super cheap prices, made in USA and with the genuine Gibson logo, not an Epiphone. Although that helps, a run of beginner's guitars to compete with pink Daisy Rocks is not the road to corporate salvation. Neither is a 900 50's Tribute as an affordable Les Paul. (I like those btw. I played one in GC in the spring with the 400 series buckers and literally almost handed over my rent money. It sounded that nice)

They need to take the three things that draw most players to Gibson beyond SG/Firebird/V/Explorer... The LP Custom, Standard, and the 1956-60 R's. They need to reprice these key products in the sane world... If they priced the reissues in the mid 2k range, (say with a relatively plain maple top to start), and the annual Standard and Custom in the 2000-2100 line, they probably wouldn't be able to make them fast enough. And there still should be room for a decent profit in there, especially if they offered them direct. And especially considering you rarely see tops on them beyond 3a anyhow.

That's how I see a way out for Gibson, and a way to totally reinvigorate the line. (Cue rebuttal... "Jane, you ignorant slut..")
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Omsong » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:00 am

Check out this discussion about Gibson on the Banjo Hangout Forum. Not pretty!
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby MatiasTolkki » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:16 am

It's time for gibson to finally die. They ruined their own history and EVERY owner has used the brand to line their pocket books without care put into the instruments. They deserve this.
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Omsong » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:22 am

Doctor Turn wrote:Gibson is in trouble. They're just not doing well at all. https://www.strata-gee.com/gibson-brand ... d-default/


Here is what I predict based upon going through a similar setup when working at RCA. RCA did exactly what Gibson has recently done. In the 1980's they diversified into a number of side businesses that were only marginally related to their core business. Then they "rewarded" their top management by putting them in control and shuffling around middle management. Of course that meant that they took on a huge debt. A few years down the road, all the interest on those debts came due. Plus, some of the "new" businesses were less than profitable, in large part due to screwed up and inexperienced management. Between the loans and their interest plus profit losses pulling down their healthy businesses, in stepped GE - Jack (Neutron Bomb) Welch and his corporate raiders. I bet a lot of younger folk don't even know "who" RCA was!

At some point in the near future, some behemoth of a company is going to offer Gibson 10 cents on the dollar and their CEO and Board will jump at the chance to bail out with their Golden Parachutes. If Americans are lucky the new parent will be a domestic owner and still care about the US worker and the guitar market. That ultimately wasn't the case with RCA who were eventually sold by GE to Thomson SA (French). Look up Thomson on the web - today they're nearly history, too - no more consumer electronics, only software!
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Doug » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:41 pm

They need to stop pricing themselves out of the market.
This isn't the 70's. There's so many options out there now.

I'm not dropping thousands on a guitar that comes as it is when I can get a semi-custom build or a kick-ass kit guitar (with comparable or better build quality) for a fraction of the price.

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Doug » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:24 am


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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:34 am

Yeah I saw that last week. That's even more wacky than this:

Image

Now listen--I luv these Seventies Vikings with those humbuckers, they're turning into some of my favorite semihollows of all time, much of it having to do with the fact of 1) being made of all old growth arctic birch which is a phenomenal tonewood (Holdsworths choice for his semihollows) 2) the necks being dead effing straight as an arrow. Straighter than Mike Pence sexually. and 3) those fabulous Alnico II humbuckers, they're so close to the original almost tele like clarity of the first round 57-59 PAF buckers (which was the point of those original Custom 58's from the late 60's-70's, and what Lundgren mimicked well on those Northen Series).

BUT--four grand for this guitar is comparatively more insane even than that Gibson. (The seller has been listing it at $4,000 for months now, and has been the laughingstock of Hag collectors online). It's not even mint: the two knob labels for the 2 tone controls have obviously fallen out and are lost/irreplaceable. Even the most collectible/pricey Hagstroms of all, which are the 1959 Goya guitars
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And the even rarer 61-2 "Batman DeLuxes":
Image

rarely break three grand. But even though the market is flush with these bucker loaded 70's Vikings, he insists on pricing his 2500-3K more than even the nicest ones out there. Even vintage 335's, upon which these Hags are based (some might say improve on), rarely go for that price with an early to mid 70's pedigree. I bid $75 on specifically so I could send him a nice note about his extremely sensible price. I didn't laugh at him at all in my bid. :shh: :shh: :shh:

But that's the whole point OF collecting Hagstroms... they're still affordable because of their anonymity in the USA outside of accomplished or knowledgable playing circles, and because of the excellence of the necks regardless of age.

The price on that quilt Gibby is just nuts. You could custom build something like that from any other custom shop for an easy seventeen thousand dollars cheaper. People are just ill in the membrane.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:35 am

So now the genius minds at Gibson have developed the future of the Les Paul's most efficient, sleek future:

No bezels for the covered buckers, so you mount the humbuckers via 4 horrible looking screws that go straight through the guitar in the back, where you insert your screwdriver or allen keys, to raise or lower. Ladies and gents, I give you the 2018 LP Standard HP in Cobalt Blue burst:

Image

Image

(Gotta love that CM140 AKA "Axcess" neck tho)
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Omsong » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:15 pm

I like the direct mount look, but why change a valued tradition? Plus, those rear screws are hideous.

Wonder how many penneys Gibson is saving? Maybe those penneys will bail them out of pending doom...
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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby DesmoBob » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:22 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:So now the genius minds at Gibson have developed the future of the Les Paul's most efficient, sleek future:

No bezels for the covered buckers...


I guess it's not as bad as it could have been. When I saw your words "No bezels," I mentally completed the sentence in my head and thought it was gonna say "...they just glued the pickups in the cavity."





Edit:
and stuffed it with feathers.

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:24 pm

The bolt holes make it look like a "set through neck" has been turned into a bolt on (especially with the shaved heel). :lol:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:08 pm

Does this mounting method require specific pickups? :think:

Not gonna lie, if you can use most pickups, I don't hate it.

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby ilyti » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:33 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Does this mounting method require specific pickups? :think:

Not gonna lie, if you can use most pickups, I don't hate it.

I can't immediately figure out how they get 'em in/out. Judging by the spacing of the bolts in the back, it seems like the pickups would have ordinary legs on the side. If the screws mounted straight through the pickup like a soapbar, I could see they in/out procedure being fairly simple. But if it has an ordinary humbucker baseplate, I'm wondering how they even get it in there. :think:

Maaaybe there's a bracket of sorts that can be adjusted up and down, with the pickup, sans-baseplate attached to it.

(I actually dig the look... But I feel like there's got to be a less awkward way of doing it)

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Cynical » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:43 pm

I'm surprised by the talk of Gibson prices being "too high" as a cause for their woes. Sure, they've got some crazy expensive LP models, but an SG standard or Explorer or Flying V are reasonably priced (a quick search on Guitar Center's website has them at $1100 and $1200, respectively).

The reason I don't own a Gibson is because, when I started playing back in 2006, the word was "Don't buy Gibson, their QC sucks", and I saw numerous Gibsons in stores with really obvious flaws (I remember when I was thinking of buying an Explorer, and every single one I looked at had a cracked neck pocket). I've heard that it's since been improved, and the only Gibson made in the last few years that I've played was an SG that played and sounded great, but it's hard to shake a reputation like that. I wonder how many other people stay away for that reason...

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:04 pm

You're hallway they're... Just take the final step.

The qc issues with Gibson have been gone over ad nauseum, and the fact that the "good" ones that are on par with a two grand Kiesel or so many others start at about four grand.

The reason that those other shapes are so cheap is that 1) they have issues, and 2) people don't want them en masse like they do an LP. Fender makes other models aside from the Strat, (and Tele) but Jazzmaster is not going to keep the company afloat. Difference between the two companies is most good fenders are affordable, and even the American ones are priced in the realm of sanity.

V's & Explorers are not the magic carpet of the Gibson ledger. They also make 335's, hollow bodies and nice acoustics too.

Look for the guitar that's served in a thousand different flavors each year, and is self fetishized endlessly. For Gibby, that's one guitar only.

They've got lots of things wrong with them, but pricing the guitar that the world wants most out of reach needlessly is ridiculous.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Gibson Ready To Unload New Solid Body?

Postby ElfDude » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:08 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:So now the genius minds at Gibson have developed the future of the Les Paul's most efficient, sleek future:

No bezels for the covered buckers, so you mount the humbuckers via 4 horrible looking screws that go straight through the guitar in the back, where you insert your screwdriver or allen keys, to raise or lower. Ladies and gents, I give you the 2018 LP Standard HP in Cobalt Blue burst:



Ummmm, no thank you.
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