Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

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spudmunkey
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Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 06, 2017 12:47 pm

This thread could be a repository for all sorts of random little thoughts that we'd like to share or mention that don't really necessitate any further discussion or follow-up. The thread doesn't need any sort of conversational flow...it could very well be just a serious of unrelated non-sequiturs, and yet could also almost be a "chat" thread as well, since there isn't a "chat room" here.

Even though this is in the "backstage lounge", I feel like we should try to keep it Kiesel-related, if only because there's a bajillion other places to talk about other stuff and it would be easy for the threads like this to grow 3-4 pages between log-ins.
Last edited by spudmunkey on Sat May 06, 2017 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 06, 2017 12:48 pm

I always wondered...why is it that so many people ask "what's the body wood?" when a photo is posted of a solid-painted guitar that isn't for sale, or someone posting their new purchase? What difference does it make? You can order it any way you want. :) Would you be turned off knowing it's ash when you prefer mahogany? Because you can get mahogany and it will look 100% identical. :lol:

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Koshchei » Sat May 06, 2017 12:51 pm

Why do people always attribute the tone and technique to the guitar and never to the player's years of committed practice?

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby arahobob » Sat May 06, 2017 2:12 pm

Koshchei wrote:Why do people always attribute the tone and technique to the guitar and never to the player's years of committed practice?


I think some see it as a short cut.
You can always buy the gear, but not the years.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Sat May 06, 2017 10:06 pm

I wonder if they could put the thin black body layers between the strips of wood in a 3 or 5-piece neck? :think:

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby dejabluguitar » Sun May 07, 2017 11:47 am

spudmunkey wrote:I wonder if they could put the thin black body layers between the strips of wood in a 3 or 5-piece neck? :think:

Isn't the thin black layer a type of thick paper? Ok in a body, not sure I want it in a neck, though it would look great.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Toptube » Wed May 10, 2017 9:18 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I wonder if they could put the thin black body layers between the strips of wood in a 3 or 5-piece neck? :think:

I have seen other companies do that. Or something like it. It may have actually been black died maple, instead of a composite.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Coda » Thu May 11, 2017 7:32 am

Mother...

...of pearl. Inlays.

Are they real? Or is it MOP 'material', i.e. plastic.
I know the abalone is 'real' and I would be more likely to get MOP if I knew the material came from shells. Anyone know for sure?
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Thu May 11, 2017 8:02 am

I have no doubt that the fretboard inlays (i have them) are real, and likely the headstock logo from the Cc275 (i don't have) is real if the Abalone headstock logo is real... But I'm not so sure about the knobs with the Pearl tops. I know for sure the pearloid tuner knobs are not real.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Cynical » Thu May 11, 2017 9:34 am

Yeah, the coloring of the inlays on my guitar is just inconsistent enough that I really doubt the MOP is fake (on my guitars with fake MOP inlays, the coloring on every inlay looks identical; on my Kiesel, there's a small bit of variation).

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Mike Jones » Thu May 11, 2017 3:07 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I wonder if they could put the thin black body layers between the strips of wood in a 3 or 5-piece neck? :think:


Jeff doesn't want to do it for fear of de-lamination.
The necks deal with stresses that the bodies don't.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby texastoast » Fri May 12, 2017 2:59 pm

Mother of pearl is supposed to be oyster shell. Hence the name. The true name for the material is Nacre if you wish to learn more. Abalone material is also technically a type of nacre. I think because of the materials appearance it is classified different. The cool thing is it is not 100 % organic like say our skin. They add ingredients to their own juices to make the stuff. What I don't know. Perhaps I shall google and learn more myself.

edit. I looked it up and read a bit. It got over my head quickly. What I got out of it besides nano structures and goobady gook is that they do not fully understand how they make it. I never thought there was nature made composites. I always assume man made when the word composite come up.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Fri May 12, 2017 3:21 pm

All I know is that I don't find abalone very tasty, but I know a couple people who go abalone harvesting and they have a few AMAZING shells in their homes.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Brock » Wed May 24, 2017 7:24 am

I've thought this for a long time but don't think I've posted it. I don't think I've ever found an appropriate place to post my thought.

Here's a common theme I notice on all Kiesel/Carvin guitars. But first - my personal taste in a guitar is a classic looking Les Paul or Strat. In a Les Paul, I like a finish that allows me to see the wood grain. I really only like the "traditional" colors. In a Strat, I like a solid painted body in most any color.

I told you that to tell you this - I see a lot of guitars on here that do not suit my personal taste. I may not like the body style, the color combination, etc. However, while I may not like what I just mentioned, I can certainly appreciate the build quality. I have seen guitars from other manufacturers that are just plain ugly (in my opinion) and I can't get past it. With Kiesel/Carvin, it's easy for me to move past features that don't fit my personal taste. I can quickly start looking at the attention to detail in the finished product. And that is the common theme. I am always stunned by the quality I see. I go from "meh" to "that is a beautiful guitar, but I would choose something different".

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Omsong » Wed May 24, 2017 8:26 am

Well, along that line of thought, Brock, it seems to me that we too often obsess about appearance more than play-ability; myself included. I've been specifying out a guitar in the "builder" and my own custom options spreadsheets so many times recently that I've lost count. And gradually, I've added more and more "glitz and glitter", upping the cost but not adding a dime to the functionality. I had to stop myself and say: "What is most important, here?" I realized that I was sacrificing some very beneficial features for more eye candy.

Sure, I want a jaw dropping, WOW factor guitar as much as anyone. But the old adage that "you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig" must be kept in mind in order to keep a build in perspective. If an instrument doesn't fit you and your playing style then no amount of fancy jewelry is going to compensate for that weakness.

So it's time for me to pull back and ask myself if I really need a quilt top (for example, or whatever) when a flame or even a plain top will give me just as much function. Then I can weight the cost advantages and disadvantages of adding the glitz. Some have the deep pockets to shell out an extra $600 for a master grade top, gold hardware or custom finishes (etc.), and that's fine if that's your thing. I will continue to admire all the beautiful guitars that many of the guys/gals put together here, but I've got to not allow out-of-control admiration turn into envy that poisons my own Kiesel experience and end up with a guitar that breaks the bank but doesn't satisfy my needs as a player. :soapbox:
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Brock » Wed May 24, 2017 8:58 am

Omsong, I agree with you 100%.

Before I made up my mind to get a Carvin, I asked about the neck profile. It's the most important part for me in playing a guitar well. For me, a Gibson 60s slim taper feels just right. When I compared Carvin specs, I knew the neck would work. I did want a little bit of "flash" but first I picked out features that suit my style of playing and comfort. The pickups were the only real unknown and they can easily be swapped out. It took me 6 years of not being 100% satisfied with the bridge pickup (C22B), but I recently replaced it with a SD Saturday Night Special.

That being said, my Carvin plays/feels better than any guitar I've owned or picked up in a store. If it doesn't function well in my hands, it's useless. Build for function first, then add the fancy stuff.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby brento73 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:30 pm

Here's something I've been thinking about lately(in part inspired by the comment section of YouTube videos):

I call it the "My dad can beat up your dad" syndrome.

Someone will comment that so-and-so can play SO much better, or that a certain player/technique/brand/style/etc. is SO SUPER AWESOME AMAZING AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS CRAP!!!1!1!111

If pressed, they'll wax on(and off) about their chosen ideas, as if they have some sage wisdom that few possess. Sometimes they really have mad skills of their own, and just need to learn some humility and manners. However....

Most of the time, if you go to their YouTube channel they have no videos at all. Now, I'm bad about getting new stuff uploaded, and I know that a lot of people just don't care to do so, but... If you are THAT fired up to enlighten us plebs with the proper way to play jazz-fusion-death-metal chord solos, of whatever, I'd expect there to be some evidence that you can actually play it. My 71 year-old mom has a phone that can shoot video and upload it to YouTube... if you want to share your music, there is a comically low barrier to entry.

A few people of this sort DO actually have stuff uploaded(props for that), but it's mediocre, at best. I don't recall who it was, but there was a dude 'round these parts who went off on... pretty much the rest of the BBS, about how we just didn't know anything about anything and he was learning from the masters, and.... so on. He had a few videos on his YT channel, and while they were decent, nothing was great. They sounded like a person in the process, the middle or even beginning, of learning the things they're so convinced they needed to teach the rest of us.

I'm not a great player. I'm a pretty good player, and there are certain things I feel I can do pretty well, but I have the sense to not spout off at strangers about how they need to do things the Brent way. :roll: Some people....

Anyway, thought about starting a whole post to vent about this, but thought I'd just stick it here, instead :)

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Omsong » Thu May 25, 2017 7:33 am

Brock wrote:That being said, my Carvin plays/feels better than any guitar I've owned or picked up in a store. If it doesn't function well in my hands, it's useless. Build for function first, then add the fancy stuff.


These "waxing philosophical" kinds of discussion are so much fun!

IMO, there is an artistic sense of appreciation and then there is base ego gratification. Satisfying my desires is not wrong as long as I don't delude myself into thinking I'm more than I really am. I must ask myself if I want a glitzy guitar simply so that my friends (any myself) will overlook my mediocre playing abilities?

I think of Allan Holdsworth (God bless him) for inspiration. He often played a very "Plain Jane" guitar yet was one of the best electric players on the planet. A pretty guitar MIGHT inspire me to practice more and play better, but I know for certain that one that is easy to play and sounds awesome (in it's own right) definitely will. I'm drawn to Kiesels because they allow me to own a very high level instrument (at a price point that is within my means) AND still add some customizing to make it a unique reflection of my personality (just as my playing does). Now, what kind of personality do I want to show the world? Allan let his playing make that statement. :)
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Brock » Sun May 28, 2017 5:02 pm

haha! Yea, it is pretty fun with the deep thoughts.

You mention Allan Holdsworth and I think of David Gilmour. For the most part he plays a standard looking strat. And really, seems a lot of good guitar players are the same way - they have a standard instrument with a few modifications to fit the tone they are looking for.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed May 31, 2017 11:52 am

Brock wrote:haha! Yea, it is pretty fun with the deep thoughts.

You mention Allan Holdsworth and I think of David Gilmour. For the most part he plays a standard looking strat. And really, seems a lot of good guitar players are the same way - they have a standard instrument with a few modifications to fit the tone they are looking for.


It's great to see an exceptional player concentrate on playing instead of looks or tech. There are those of us who aren't quite as good of a player (myself included), but have a reasonable grasp of the tech, making experimentation all the more fun. Playing an instrument just makes the engineering aspect seem even better, since I can enjoy the fruits of a design (or lack thereof).

The biggest conclusion I've come to, and somewhat to my chagrin as it's jaded me...I'm not worried about wood types anymore, and don't subscribe to ideas of superiority surrounding pickup pole spacing (I prefer blades anyway), individual tuners, string gauges causing massive tone changes, or that tubes are always superior to solid state.

If it sounds good, it is good..and maybe that is more supportive of the basic instrument with minor mods.
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