Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

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EL_SUPER_BEASTO
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby EL_SUPER_BEASTO » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:30 pm

Yes, that's a very good point that cheap guitars weren't always very useful, and in reality that modern $150 pawn shop fiddle probably needs $250 in pickups and adjustment directly on the front end of use— but that's a lot of guitars in my opinion.

Kiesel's place in the market definitely walks that fine line of value and options, but lots of adults keep more than one guitar so picking up another Kiesel isn't the drawn-out mail order deliberation it used to be at all, and if you don't like it the return is there (I believe). In that way, they can kind of compete with everyone else that only does strict model lines while keeping the custom shop rolling that competes with other small run and custom shops. I don't see the traditionalists really flocking to Kiesel, I mean the history and heritage buffs or the type that's head over heels for their Gibson R9 or '63 rosewood Strat and are already happy.

Gearing things more modern while keeping the pillar and sig models is a decent move I think, hopefully NAMM brings us another new model or more options since they've recently moved factories and are adjusting prices :think: . I don't think they have the industrial capacity to offer guitars at exceptionally low price points like Ibanez or Jackson, so as long as they concentrate on being a high-end custom guitar maker things will be smooth sailing for them. Maybe add some new species of woods, new finish styles, compound radius boards, more pickup options, or general construction options. If the cost doesn't reflect the quality then people will look elsewhere regardless, but Kiesel is really well known for their value in custom guitars, I hope they don't get too cost exclusive in the future and keep a broad spectrum of offerings all built to the same quality standards.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Bob77 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:16 am

EL_SUPER_BEASTO wrote:I don't see the traditionalists really flocking to Kiesel, I mean the history and heritage buffs or the type that's head over heels for their Gibson R9 or '63 rosewood Strat and are already happy.


I don't think people that are into those instruments are just drinking a Kool aid or being blinded by some hype.

Once you put your hands in one those instruments it is hard to go back and play anything else. Obviously, not everybody can afford a real vintage fender or Gibson - if you can find anyway. But gibson with their historic reissues and fender with their custom shop master built series have done an amazing job reproducing these older instruments to exact specs. Once you play one the "wow" factor kicks in very quickly.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby EL_SUPER_BEASTO » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:00 pm

I didn't mean to come off saying those folks are sticking their heads in the sand or anything. I just mean they are already happy where they are with the style of those classics and reproductions, but it doesn't really translate to Kiesel— though I guess they have the antique ash treatment that can add a lot of the same visual character. Sometimes people buy guitars as relics and less as strictly an instrument, and that's cool too, I wish I had the loot and connections to put classics on every wall of my house.

Yea, I know Carvin has it's own sort of classics but let's face it they've never been at the forefront of the mass producing instruments for popular music like Gibson and Fender have throughout certain decades in American history. Not saying that Carvin doesn't have a strong heritage, just that it's not the brand most people have jump to mind when the words "relic" or "classic" are spoken about guitars. I think those folks are all set for what they are looking for unless they might want a Howe/Holdsworth/Becker/Gambale sig.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:01 pm

I think people who buy Gibsons and Fender fall into two classes primarily: one is those buying into the classic idea if the Most Credible Rock and Roll Instrument. They feel they must have one or the other to have visual mojo onstage.

Then there are working musicians who have played lots of instruments and they're going for a classic sound, plus an idea of The Real Thing. I understand and relate to that idea. Especially when recording or gigging on the high end and you don't want a secondary offshoot of a certain sound, you want that sound itself.

One area I find it extremely hard to fall back on an offshoot is in the P90 driven guitar. Gibson can still lay claim to that pure p90 sound. It's the most effed up reproduction pickup on Earth imho. I've heard two repro P90s that I instantly fell in love with, Lundgren (which come in no guitar standard), and those H90S from hag. I am not much of a fan of the ones on the sixties Vikings. Too clanky.

To me there's no substitute for a LP Special. Gotta have one.

There are certain vibes in those strats and Les Pauls that is somehow just not there in other spin offs. Some very good players do make the journey through eclectic lesser known instruments, with excellent build quality exceeding your average fender or LP. But as time goes on you do realize there are things not there in your Instrument sound wise that are there in those classic, and for some very accomplished and experienced players with valid judgement, they find their way back to the old standbys after traveling thru the lesser known "build quality" brands. I kind of exist in both places simultaneously.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Bob77 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:40 am

Is your LP special single cut or double cut? I've always wanted to have a LP special. I tend to prefer lighter weight guitars. The other LPs tend to be too heavy for me.

And yea...there is something so frickin cool about p90s as we talked about on the other thread. It's really my favorite electric guitar pickup.

I like your thoughts on how guitar players navigate towards one side or the other. Very true. I would add that PRS really became a game changer as well in that classic vs modern approach.

Are there any "commercial" artists that have used Carvin/kiesel guitars? By that I mean mainstream music not the underworld of guitar virtuosity, prog-metal and the instrumental stuff that attracts just a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people.

I think this is what makes a difference. When there's music that changes and influences a generation, the instruments used to make that music transcend time and space. PRS owns his ass to Santana in that regard :laughhard:
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Casual Madman » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:12 am

Bob77 wrote:Are there any "commercial" artists that have used Carvin/kiesel guitars? By that I mean mainstream music not the underworld of guitar virtuosity, prog-metal and the instrumental stuff that attracts just a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people.


The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Craig Chaquico from (Jefferson) Starship and Joe Walsh - the latter of whom is one of those guys who's played literally everything imaginable, and yet is indelibly associated with the Les Paul.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby gumbynotpokey » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:35 am

Casual Madman wrote:
Bob77 wrote:Are there any "commercial" artists that have used Carvin/kiesel guitars? By that I mean mainstream music not the underworld of guitar virtuosity, prog-metal and the instrumental stuff that attracts just a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people.


The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Craig Chaquico from (Jefferson) Starship and Joe Walsh - the latter of whom is one of those guys who's played literally everything imaginable, and yet is indelibly associated with the Les Paul.


It's probably outside the intent of the question, but Timothy B Schmit (Eagles) used to have a signature model bass. John McVie (Fleetwood Mac) has used their basses.

But back to guitar: the other big one that comes to mind is Rick Neilson (Cheap Trick).
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 am

Roy Clark was huge in country music. Howard Leese from Heart. To a lesser degree John Cippolina an Lita Ford. The latter three all played 150's or 160's.

Bob, I have a cherry single cut LP Jr Special Exclusive from 2011. Ebony board and full Tom bridge:



Image
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Bob77 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:07 pm

Thanks guys the responses. I wasn't very familiar with mainstream artists that played Carvin/Kiesel guitars. Those are some influential musicians. I totally forgot about Craig Chaquico. I used to have his Carvin signature CC2275 years ago which I sold.

@Doctor Turn...that's a great guitar! That would be perfect for me: smaller/lighter body and P90s. Can't get any better.

Just curious...what's the guitar next to it in the pic ? :mrgreen:
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Doug » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:25 pm

Bob77 wrote:Thanks guys the responses. I wasn't very familiar with mainstream artists that played Carvin/Kiesel guitars. Those are some influential musicians. I totally forgot about Craig Chaquico. I used to have his Carvin signature CC2275 years ago which I sold.



Marty Friedman and Frank Zappa?

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:31 pm

It's the guitar in the right in this shot, a triple P90-S (technically "H90-S") Hagstrom Super Swede Tremar. Tobacco sunburst, reissue era, customized by my tech and I with new pots, 3 way and Frampton style wiring. (You may have read me posting ad nauseum about it) Amazing guitar. It's like a pre 57 Custom in long scale. Great guitar considering after the customization all things considered I paid a little over 850 for it. Just the neck, the fretboard, and the sound of the P90s are worth the price of admission alone. The Tremar is better than the majority of bigsby tremolos I've played..

Image

In case you might ask, the one on the left is the special edition"hand made in Europe" Northen Series Super Swede, a unique prototype. As good as the best CS Les Paul reissues, with Lundgren buckers aimed at mimicking those great vintage humbuckers the swedish original Hagstrom made in the seventies.

Doctor Doug, Frank only used the M22's, he never actually played a Carvin guitar (he helped design the original x100b and used it from it's first appearance to the end of his career, of course. But in terms of guitars, he was primarily a Gibson/Performance Guitars (his custom strat)/Hagstrom man. Although his collection had some great unique guitars in there.. Acoustic Black Widow, for example.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Bob77 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:26 pm

wow...simply amazing. You have a heck of a collection of Hagstrom guitars.

That thing with three p90s must be a super blast to play. Cool mods!
Carvin guitars: AC375, Cobalt 250, Bolt-T.
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:43 am

It is a lot of fun. Really well done P90's on that guitar. I use it a lot in recording, even when I start out intending to use something else, trial and error puts me on that guitar in the end. All 4 of the Hagstroms I own are really good, and they all have their place in my toolkit.

I'm mixing down a jazzy instrumental where I used most of my guitars in different spots thru the thing. Interestingly, that triple P90 Hag is the one that sounded out of place and I didn't use it.

I'm off buying guitars for the time being while I focus on my amp budget. I'm almost there... the Carr Mercury V 1 x 12 combo will be mine in the coming weeks. Can't wait to get it in my greezy mitts.
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:38 am

Doctor Turn wrote:the Carr Mercury V 1 x 12 combo will be mine in the coming weeks. Can't wait to get it in my greezy mitts.


Whoa, nice!!!

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:17 am

I just got off the phone w their NYC dealer, about an hour ago. Aiming to have it in by the 2nd week of January, and I'll come in w a hand truck. I thought about grabbing this one on Reverb, but it's so close to the price out of the factory, that the couple extra bucks, and not having to worry about Reverb seller shipping via ground (across the entire continent, like that LP Special I bought in the spring which really got jolted around) makes it worthwhile w the lifetime warranty from Carr off of my own purchase (it covers the entire life of the original owner, to be free from defect).
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:27 pm

According to about minute 23 or 24 of today's live facebook video, Arctic finishes going up to $800. At $600, Jeff said that if you just add up the options that come with that bundle, they've only been getting $50 for him to do the hand-finish work, selecting the woods, etc.

SCB multiscale will be up officially launching for NAMM, and should be up on the web near that.

Mark-designed Berylium pickups should also be at NAMM!
Last edited by spudmunkey on Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Omsong » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:12 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Mark-designed Berylium pickups should also be at NAMM!


I'm anxious to hear the verdict on these - might have to get a set "just because".
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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby Doctor Turn » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:22 pm

REEAAALLLLY PUMPED TO SEE WHAT MARK COMES UP WITH!!!!!! :rockon:
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby DesmoBob » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:08 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Mark-designed Berylium pickups should also be at NAMM!

Wait, what????

:applause:

Also want to hear impressions about the new pups!

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Re: Kiesel Random Thoughts (not worth their own thread)

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:21 pm

Some people are truly delusional. A guy is trying to sell a TL60 on the Facebook group for $1,000. Solid paint, fixed bridge, dot inlays, chrome hardware.

It's 18 years old, and would have cost around $700 new. Even now new (at least for a couple more days), I think you could get it for $1,039 with the hardshell case and warranty.


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