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Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:12 pm
by Doctor Turn
wickid wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:. Disco Boy-oyyyy .... :mrgreen:


I loved Disco Boy, used to sing it all the time in the early eighties.

"Run to the toilet and comb your hairrrrrrrr..."

"Shake it more than three times and you're playing with (kweeeiiiwwwww) while you're standing there."

But I love that bass/guitar figure that's stated at 3:40, then repeated with fretless guitar pushed thru a plate reverb at 3:55 "Try again to get a little laid tomorrow.."
https://youtu.be/OfzfLw6OSJU?t=212

Zoot Allures is an awesome stripped down FZ album. The Torture Never Stops is one of the best sings about the record company business ever written.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:51 am
by Cynical
Doctor Turn wrote:Your statements like "If the studio tools of the 21st century existed then, Aretha Franklin would have done everything she could to sound exactly like Beyonce does today," are bizarre to me. Do you mean stylistically? Musically? Are you saying if Aretha had digital, plug-ins, and ProTools then she would not have recorded You Make Me Feel Like A Natural Woman, etc, but would have gone in the direction of Single Ladies? I think if you would have told that to both Aretha AND Beyonce they would have both busted out laughing.

You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman is already pretty close to the slower end of modern R&B influenced vocal pop, though. Similar inflections and rhythms, accompanying instrumentals buried so far that few can recall them, both built around a hook that's the loudest part of the song and repeated until it's hammered into memory. Toss a bit of autotune on Aretha, and she'd be basically indistinguishable from any other pop singer on the radio today.

Space Oddity, Bohemian Rhapsody, Hey Joe, Purple Haze, Sittin On The Dock of the Bay, Sunshine of Your Love, Crimson & Clover, Lady Madonna, Paperback Writer, Born To Be Wild, Magic Carpet Ride, Hurdy Gurdy Man (Donovan), Atlantis (same), Hush (Purple.. this was a HIT), Dance to the Music (Sly Stone), White Room/Those Were The Days (Cream), I've Gotta Get A Message To You (BeeGees).. I skipped so many but could go on and on.. all those great songs like Woman Woman and Lady Willpower by Gary Puckett and The Union Gap.. all the James Brown, Dionne Warwick, Arethe.. the Doors.. all of this is just the top 200 radio from 1968 but for a few of them at the beginning of my list.

Space Oddity and Bohemian Rhapsody I'll give you. There's no replacement for David Bowie, and I can't think of anything on the radio in recent years that's had as many parts and as little repetition as Bohemian Rhapsody.

For the rest of that though, at least the ones that I can recognize by just seeing a title, just listen to the radio and find a song with a big hook in the chorus? Doesn't seem that rare. Played on synth vs. guitar isn't really that big of a distinction in the grand scheme of things. Purple Haze stands out a bit by having that killer intro riff that's brought back after the bridge + solo, but I'd like to think that if you listened to the radio for a couple years you'd find at least one really slick ear-catching melody.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:45 pm
by Doctor Turn
So don't speak in generalizations--name some equivalents. Step up and give me some songs on the radio that you think are equivalents.

And on the Aretha thing, she didn't need autotune and I doubt would have used it. But these are silly suppositions that are way out in the ether of Maybe-woulda, and really can bear no fruit.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:25 am
by Cynical
Doctor Turn wrote:So don't speak in generalizations--name some equivalents. Step up and give me some songs on the radio that you think are equivalents.

And on the Aretha thing, she didn't need autotune and I doubt would have used it. But these are silly suppositions that are way out in the ether of Maybe-woulda, and really can bear no fruit.

I only listen to the radio when it's inflicted on me by outside sources, so I don't know the names of much of what I hear these days, but "Call Me Maybe" and "We Are Young" both seem like reasonable enough candidates, the former being a "dance-ish" uptempo vocal pop song with an unusual rhythmic hook, the latter being a lame sugary rock song with an unfortunately catchy chorus. That's pretty much 99% of what's ever been played on the radio.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:49 am
by Doctor Turn
Call Me Maybe

vs

Space Oddity, Bohemian Rhapsody, Hey Joe, Purple Haze, Sittin On The Dock of the Bay, Sunshine of Your Love, Crimson & Clover, Lady Madonna, Paperback Writer, Born To Be Wild, Magic Carpet Ride, Hurdy Gurdy Man (Donovan), Atlantis (same), Hush (Purple.. this was a HIT), Dance to the Music (Sly Stone), White Room/Those Were The Days (Cream), I've Gotta Get A Message To You (BeeGees).. I skipped so many but could go on and on.. all those great songs like Woman Woman and Lady Willpower by Gary Puckett and The Union Gap.. all the James Brown, Dionne Warwick, Arethe.. the Doors..


I could do a Steve Harvey "stunned" meme but--I'd rather just say, "if you don't listen to the radio at all, why bother making qualitative arguments for it?" The biggest most obvious difference between present day radio and that of yesteryear is the absence of sophisticated pop music today geared towards adults. If you see no difference between the lyrics to Like A Rolling Stone and Call Me Maybe, then the nature of the discussion we're having might be misapprehended.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:16 am
by spudmunkey
I'm not necessarily always a fan of the actual tone/timber of her voice, but one of the most successful modern songwriters is Sia, and I think she's definitely got a great talent for writing more "intelligent" (at least than average) popular songs for herself.

She's also written some of the biggest pop songs for other popular artists, and they always seem to be some of the "best" songs by those artists.

I've also seen her perform live in her previous life with Zero 7, and I can promise you: if autotune wasn't sort of an expectation of pitch-perfect modern pop-music, she could hold her own with the best of what's out there now. No joke.

She's also been very successfull in creating her stage persona/image. She performed for years without hiding her face with previous bands and performances, but the last few years she's been "Sia", she's mostly hidden her face and most people have no idea what she looks like, which is entirely the point. I'm not saying she's ugly, but she's not the same sort of "supermodel" beauty of seemingly most modern pop-stars. Instead, she spends lots of time and effort creating visual art with the videos and stage set-ups for live performances while performing in a face-covering wig, or simply facing completely away from the cameras.

Yes, her music is the typical intro-verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus-outro type of format, but I still think she's really talented....and more so than most of her contemporaries.

"Chandelier" is a great song/performance of hers.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:33 pm
by Doctor Turn
Oh sure, seen her performances where due to alleged social anxiety she sits with her back to the audience. She really blew up a couple years ago, and the performance for better or for worse was a gimmick that I think helped her.

If the perception really exists that radio today is exactly the same as it was a few decades ago and the variety, sophistication, chance-taking, and catering to a large swath of variegated audiences is now as it always was... well, ok. To me (and tons of kids as well) it's a no brainer. But we're all entitled to our opinions and qualitative assessments.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:54 pm
by spudmunkey
Ahh, I hadn't heard the social anxiety aspect. I mean...I saw her on tour as a headlining act, and she's performed on Letterman about 10 years ago, etc. i assumed is was just part of her "show".

With all that said, I feel like she's a good contemporary example of a blend of talent and creativity bridging with commercial success that holds up when comparing it to previous generations.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:32 pm
by Doctor Turn
I find in her more universally acclaimed songs an excessive plaintiveness, that cause them to stand out when mixed with the proficiency of her songwriting... but I also think in a prison where Top tobacco rollies is all one has, a Marlboro is like heaven.

And again, hoisting a good song or two isn't the point. The thesis here is that music is filled with as much greatness and immortality today as it always was. I need gobs and gobs of classics at boss level that will see generations staggered as with the list above.

Anyhow, this is getting too depressing.. :lol:

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:46 am
by Cynical
Doctor Turn wrote:I could do a Steve Harvey "stunned" meme but--I'd rather just say, "if you don't listen to the radio at all, why bother making qualitative arguments for it?" The biggest most obvious difference between present day radio and that of yesteryear is the absence of sophisticated pop music today geared towards adults. If you see no difference between the lyrics to Like A Rolling Stone and Call Me Maybe, then the nature of the discussion we're having might be misapprehended.

Wait, you hand me a list of "drugs and hedonism are fun!" songs aimed at angsty teenagers, and then start talking about sophisticated pop music geared towards adults?! Are we having two separate conversations here?

Anyways, if what you're looking for is "pop music with adults as the target audience", Florence and The Machine and Marina and the Diamonds (god that's hard to read, sorry for having to mention two groups with "and" in their name) both come to mind (EDIT: also The Polyphonic Spree). Slightly dated references (IIRC, both hit during my last semester at college, which would mean they're both about a decade old), but they're both still playing the big fests in Austin, so not that dated.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:21 am
by Casual Madman
Cynical wrote:... they're both still playing the big fests in Austin, so not that dated.


As are Metallica and (gasp) Sir Paul McCartney (the Austin City Limits festival this very weekend). So, not that dated?

:stir:

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:33 am
by Casual Madman
Getting back to the original theme, "Death of the Electric Guitar" - I think that has been greatly exaggerated. I built myself a guitar-centric Pandora station, and I'm frequently amazed at not only how much great string-slinging is out there I never heard before, but at how much of it is recent vintage.

I've tried to train the station to play only instrumental guitar works, but a vocal track slips in once in a while - and I've noticed that the track selection seems to vary slightly depending on the platform (I get different "flavors" on my PC than I do on my phone).

Anyway, check it out.

https://www.pandora.com/station/play/39 ... 9646087195

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:03 am
by Cynical
Casual Madman wrote:
Cynical wrote:... they're both still playing the big fests in Austin, so not that dated.


As are Metallica and (gasp) Sir Paul McCartney (the Austin City Limits festival this very weekend). So, not that dated?

:stir:

Can't speak for Paul McCartney, but Metallica is still churning out songs that I assume are played on the radio (if one from their last album was played at the Grammys, it has to have at least been somewhat of a hit), so yeah, they're not dated despite having been around for almost 40 years.

Re: "The Death of the Electric Guitar"

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm
by Doctor Turn
Cynical wrote:Wait, you hand me a list of "drugs and hedonism are fun!" songs aimed at angsty teenagers, and then start talking about sophisticated pop music geared towards adults?! Are we having two separate conversations here?


Doc Turner wrote:Sittin On The Dock of the Bay, Crimson & Clover, Lady Madonna, Paperback Writer, I've Gotta Get A Message To You (BeeGees).. Woman Woman and Lady Willpower by Gary Puckett and The Union Gap.. all the James Brown, Dionne Warwick, Arethe..


Apparently only half of the single conversation I was having is being seen, much less two conversations being had. The rest of my post contains a considerable number of adult contemporary, sophisticated pop music.

And there's an adult, literary quality to the rock music back then that's not present in today's music.. the poetics of the (occasionally massively corny) Moody Blues, along with the Doors, the Who, Cream, Dylan, etc etc etc etc etc. The dancing and muddy twirling and flailing of the kids out in the world of flower power is irrelevant to the quality of the music they danced to.

What a crazy discussion this is. :lol: