Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

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MrSparkle
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Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby MrSparkle » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:20 pm

Thinking of getting a 30" V4 with ash body, maple neck and ebony fretboard as a recording instrument (I'm a guitarist - own a Vader 6).

I really like the sound of a good passive Jazz Bass, but have never owned anything besides a low-end MIM. I'm guessing the neck-thru Kiesel will sound hi-fi, modern with less bloom and overtones. I'm looking to record pop, jazz, film-score stuff with it (Carol Kaye esque bass parts, if you will).

Between the hum and single-coil pickups, which are better suited? I lean towards the HBs; hum-free and they should have a little more thump, but any owners care to share their experience?

Is ebony a bad choice on an ash/maple bass? I prefer more warm sustained tones, but dig the look and feel of an ebony FB.

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Toptube
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Re: Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby Toptube » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:07 pm

30" scale has a bit more thump to it, inherently.

Neckthrough tend to have more highs in their tone. If you are looking for a warmer tone, I would recommend a different body wood. Ash has less mids anyway. But a neckthrough's extra highs: in my opinion, can be a tough combo. I love my Ash/walnut Icon. Buuuuuuuuut, I wouldn't do it again.

If you want a bloomy tone, I think you have a better chance at it with a 1 piece neck. I think 1 piece necks sound better, as a rule. And IMO, walnut seems to be more bloomy than maple. But maple has more mids.

As far as pickups: I haven't played the newest humbuckers. But I have played the two older ones and have listened to several clips on the new ones. IMO, they sound hi-fi and very modern. Its sounds like you may not want that.

Kiesels last couple of radiused single coils tend to strike a nice balance between vintage and modern. I think you would like them.

There's also the SCP. Although it has a modern twist to the top end, its a very beefy tone. And has good character in the mids. Typically its paired with a humbucker at the bridge. Personally, I would go for that, rather than two radiused humbuckers.

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amispy
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Re: Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby amispy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:19 am

Toptube wrote:There's also the SCP. Although it has a modern twist to the top end, its a very beefy tone. And has good character in the mids. Typically its paired with a humbucker at the bridge. Personally, I would go for that, rather than two radiused humbuckers.


I agree. I have the SCP/Radius Hum/Active Electronic in a few of my basses. Very versatile set up, especially in my PB5. I can get a huge boomy Music Man sound with the SCP, active mode, and bass knob turned up. A nice almost upright sound with pick up switch in the middle and highs rolled all the way back. I can get a 90's alternative pingy rock sound with both pickups and the highs rolled all the way up. SCP, passive mode, pick closer to fretboard = 50's/60's P-bass sound. Passive mode, bridge pup, pluck hard near bridget = Jaco J-bass tone.

By the way, I ordered a 30" scale VB5. It was beautiful. I was surprised how full the low-B sounded. I just couldn't get used to the feel of a headless so I sent her back. Man she was pretty. Black limba body with claro walnut top.
VB5.jpg
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MrSparkle
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Re: Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby MrSparkle » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:32 am

Toptube wrote:30" scale has a bit more thump to it, inherently.

Neckthrough tend to have more highs in their tone. If you are looking for a warmer tone, I would recommend a different body wood. Ash has less mids anyway. But a neckthrough's extra highs: in my opinion, can be a tough combo. I love my Ash/walnut Icon. Buuuuuuuuut, I wouldn't do it again.

If you want a bloomy tone, I think you have a better chance at it with a 1 piece neck. I think 1 piece necks sound better, as a rule. And IMO, walnut seems to be more bloomy than maple. But maple has more mids.

As far as pickups: I haven't played the newest humbuckers. But I have played the two older ones and have listened to several clips on the new ones. IMO, they sound hi-fi and very modern. Its sounds like you may not want that.

Kiesels last couple of radiused single coils tend to strike a nice balance between vintage and modern. I think you would like them.

There's also the SCP. Although it has a modern twist to the top end, its a very beefy tone. And has good character in the mids. Typically its paired with a humbucker at the bridge. Personally, I would go for that, rather than two radiused humbuckers.


Good points. I'm familiar with the treble-presence in ash guitars, was thinking maybe this didn't really apply to bass since the bass range is fundamentally so deep anyway, but I'll take your word. Any thoughts on a Black Limba bass neck/body? Limba is the same as Korina right? I've tried some of those Reverend basses, and really liked them. I think they were korina.

My Vader guitar has black limba wings, mahogany top and 5p hog neck - it sounds really nice but I do have to turn the treble to ZERO on all my guitar amps, and use the tone knob a lot to dial in. No doubt due to the neck-thru construction - my Parker Fly was the same. Very resonant and clear, but it takes some getting used to, taming the treble and finding the sweet mids and bass. I'm very comfortable with its range of tones though, and because of its extended treble range, I feel it comfortable covers a range of tones that other guitars don't , which is what I'm hoping with the bass.

The SCP sounds like the right choice.

I've had Walnut before. It didn't go well in a Strat I built, but I liked the sound of some all-walnut Gibsons. My experience was it did lean more towards the treble-zing I personally don't like, but with a warmer sounding semi hollow short scale, it worked out well. Again, totally unfamiliar with how these woods work in bass range, but it would make sense that the bass is much more affected by tone woods since tube amps and effects impart such a strong color on guitar.
Last edited by MrSparkle on Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrSparkle
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Re: Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby MrSparkle » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:34 am

amispy wrote:
Toptube wrote:There's also the SCP. Although it has a modern twist to the top end, its a very beefy tone. And has good character in the mids. Typically its paired with a humbucker at the bridge. Personally, I would go for that, rather than two radiused humbuckers.


I agree. I have the SCP/Radius Hum/Active Electronic in a few of my basses. Very versatile set up, especially in my PB5. I can get a huge boomy Music Man sound with the SCP, active mode, and bass knob turned up. A nice almost upright sound with pick up switch in the middle and highs rolled all the way back. I can get a 90's alternative pingy rock sound with both pickups and the highs rolled all the way up. SCP, passive mode, pick closer to fretboard = 50's/60's P-bass sound. Passive mode, bridge pup, pluck hard near bridget = Jaco J-bass tone.

By the way, I ordered a 30" scale VB5. It was beautiful. I was surprised how full the low-B sounded. I just couldn't get used to the feel of a headless so I sent her back. Man she was pretty. Black limba body with claro walnut top.
VB5.jpg


Cool - double convinced of the SCP, and the black limba is a good idea! So you get a nice Jaco tone with the passive bridge HB? That sounds like what I'm looking for, but I had the impression the HB was better for metal/rock.

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amispy
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Re: Short-scale Vader Pickups/Wood

Postby amispy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:38 am

MrSparkle wrote:So you get a nice Jaco tone with the passive bridge HB? That sounds like what I'm looking for, but I had the impression the HB was better for metal/rock.


Yes, Jaco-ish with the radiused humbucker [KRH - Kiesel Radium Radiused Humbucker]. However, a lot of it has to do with playing finger-style close to the bridge and turning up the mids. The radiused hum is a versatile pickup.
KRH & SCP
pb5-ym-ash1-aph-ref-imp-ib-wp-tcp-dsls-127281_gallery.jpg



Btw, Kiesel also has the HB2 humbucker. I don't have that one so I can't comment on it's tone.
HB2 & SCP
pb5-xxxxxx_gallery.jpg
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