PB5 SCP finger noise?

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jochan90
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PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby jochan90 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:39 pm

Haven't been around in a while and hoping you guys here can help me think through this.

I bought a used PB5 at the beginning of the year. I love a lot of things about it! But in my mind I hear a noise when I am playing. If I am playing a note on the a string, after my finger hits the string then hits the E string that is muted, it is making an audible noise that I hear through the pickup coming all the way through to the speakers in an amp. Now this is the only bass that I hear this noise from. It is also the only bass equipped with the pickups in it (SCP and J99(V?)).

Is this common with the pickup or maybe just Kiesel/Carvin's version of the pickup? It's something I do hear through the amp during worship at church and is bugging me a little. I'm going to try to record a DI sample this week, but until then does anyone have any insight?

Update: After playing it right now, I couldn't hear the noise I was talking about... Not sure what to make of this. I'll still try and record to see what it sounds like...
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gumbynotpokey
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:09 am

I assume you are not talking about the "clack" that can be present in fingerstyle bass playing?
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Pbass8 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:04 am

I think I know what you're talking about. To me, with my PB5 passive and the tone all the way up, there's a very airy, almost scratchy sound. I think it's a lot of extra high mid and high content. I would try turning the passive tone down to like 20% use that as your starting point, even if you normally play your basses wide open. There's still a ton of treble down in that range.

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Toptube » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:20 pm

The SCP is a blade pickup. Some Blades can be more sensitive to anything happening with your strings.

Kiesel also uses 500k pots. Which can be too much, with some gear combos. If you find yourself wanting to role the tone down a little bit, all the time: You may want to put a 250k pot in the chain somewhere or an equivalent tone cap. Right before your output jack is a great place.

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Bob C » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:31 am

You've piqued my curiosity. Hope to hear a sound clip.

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby jochan90 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:28 pm

Bob C wrote:You've piqued my curiosity. Hope to hear a sound clip.


Bob, sorry it hasn't been delivered yet! Hope to make time this weekend! Found a Peavey Ampkit Link HD in a drawer so now I don't even have to leave the house!
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby jochan90 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:09 pm

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13594927

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13594926

Don't know if there is a better way to share them, but here's two recordings on my soundclick page of the PB-5. The nopise is the almost percussive one in the background.
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Catman10 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:25 am

I listened to the clips. To me, it sounds like your anchoring your thumb of your plucking hand on your low-B string and it is causing it to flex and tap the cover of the SCP. That's my guess.

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Bob C » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:50 pm

If I'm hearing the same sound Catman is, I think he's right. I hear it more in the first clip (which is louder overall) - and not really in the background at all. In fact it sounds like intentional "ghost note" type of playing. Or is it a different sound/noise that I'm not hearing?

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:43 pm

Agree with my brothers above.

It's easier to hear in the first clip.

It sounds like a dead note/percussive technique thing between portions of the riff and between riffs. It definitely sounds like an artifact of technique.

To diagnose the cause, slow that first riff down in terms of tempo until the extraneous noise is eliminated. Then, slowly raise your tempo until it reappears. I suspect you will determine the cause.

Of course sometimes when we do that, we fake ourselves out and can't make the noise reappear. Either way, you win.
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
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Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby jochan90 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:00 pm

Thank you Carvinites(Kieselnites?) for your input! I will tale a long hard look/listen at and to my technique. I will say I am having a difficult time accepting that it is just that since the sound is only present with this bass. It could very well be a combination of the two causing it to be more audible with the PB5. Thank you for giving me a place to start looking! God Bless!
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:32 am

Good guess. If so, perhaps PU position, perhaps level of output.
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby Pbass8 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:26 am

I think it's a combination of several things:

-it's something in your technique that you didn't realize was there

-maybe it got a little worse since this is a new bass and you have to get used to playing it

-the PB5 (or maybe carvins in general) have a pretty articulate sound even acoustically, which brings out a lot of sustain and can increase unwanted clank. Basically they're really well made instruments with strong necks and neck joints, which transmits a lot of sound. Not much dampening going on from the bass

-the pickups are very hot and have a lot of high mid and high frequencies (which is where string noise and clank are)

-recording direct makes those sounds much worse. Bass cabinets and cab sims cut a lot of those frequencies, so this is all going to sound much less extreme through an amp or with a sim on your recording

My recommendation for a quick fix is to roll back the tone knob a bit, but I would also just keep practicing on the bass being mindful of that sound now. You can even practice with the tone up and boost the treble on your amp, that'll bring out every little sound and force you to be more careful!

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby jochan90 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:05 am

Pbass8 wrote:I think it's a combination of several things:

-it's something in your technique that you didn't realize was there

-maybe it got a little worse since this is a new bass and you have to get used to playing it

-the PB5 (or maybe carvins in general) have a pretty articulate sound even acoustically, which brings out a lot of sustain and can increase unwanted clank. Basically they're really well made instruments with strong necks and neck joints, which transmits a lot of sound. Not much dampening going on from the bass

-the pickups are very hot and have a lot of high mid and high frequencies (which is where string noise and clank are)

-recording direct makes those sounds much worse. Bass cabinets and cab sims cut a lot of those frequencies, so this is all going to sound much less extreme through an amp or with a sim on your recording

My recommendation for a quick fix is to roll back the tone knob a bit, but I would also just keep practicing on the bass being mindful of that sound now. You can even practice with the tone up and boost the treble on your amp, that'll bring out every little sound and force you to be more careful!


Thanks Pbass8! After a few minutes playing both the PB5 and my Lakland 55-01 (with Carvin SP2's installed), the sound heard in the first two clips can be heard through both basses. That is actually me hitting the string while it is sitting unfretted as a means to keep time(I believe). I believe it is more pronounced on the PB5 because of the pickups, like you said. I don't think that is a common thing while I am playing, but I will be sure to be more mindful of that!

All,
I have another clip here: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13595983

In this clip, when I start playing 1/4 notes, around 10 seconds I believe, you can hear the sound I was originally talking about. I was playing on the A string, E string untouched/unmuted, and thumb resting on the B string.
Bass Related:
Carvin BK5
Carvin LB20F
Carvin PB5
Sire V7
Lakland 55-01
Gallien-Krueger MB210-ii
Guitar Related:
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Carvin Cobalt 850T
Blackstar ID: Core Stereo 100

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gumbynotpokey
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:10 pm

I would strongly consider playing your normal way, with headphones if possible or perhaps with your amp volume a bit higher than normal, and slowing down until this noise disappears. Then play with it not reappearing. Speed back up until it does. You will come to learn/feel/experience your error.
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby lucien » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:23 pm

hard to avoid this if you're plucking up near the neck, which it sounds like you're probably doing. Playing up there is certainly not a bad thing, it's a stylistic choice and just part of that sound is lots of clanking and plopping and etc. You can minimize the "clump" sound of the lower string being hit by the "hammerstroke" with practice, but it'll be hard to avoid.

Pluck closer to the bridge; try plucking directly over the bridge pickup (if your particular bass has one) as a good starting point. The strings are a good deal tighter down towards the bridge and a lot of the clumping sound will go away. The tone will be a sharper more "Jaco" type of sound, but it'll be less noisy.

LS

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:30 pm

I spend a ton of time up over the fingerboard with my right hand, and at the end of the board - on both fretless and fretted. I go up there to round and soften my tone. Go up there and lighten your touch.

For volume, let the in-ears, floor wedge, or FOH do the work.

If you have enough volume with a light right hand attack over the board, then your volume is where it needs to be for the night; as you bang it out with other songs and move your right had to the center P position or down by the bridge, you'll then have TONS of headroom.
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:32 pm

jason and me.jpg
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Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

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gumbynotpokey
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby gumbynotpokey » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:34 pm

Go up there, lighten your attack, raise the volume on your amp, and slow down until that noise is gone. :)
Wife: C350, Claro top SH550, Vintage 16
Oldest: DC400M greenburst, C980TMW
Youngest: C750, GK1, CT624M Deep Black Cherry on flame, V3MC Celestion,
SH550 white/white, black binding, gold hardware
Me: LB70P jet black, LB70PF Claro BEM HAN, MB 10

lucien
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Re: PB5 SCP finger noise?

Postby lucien » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:53 pm

A little off topic and speaking of which, some very cool tones are possible playing up on the fingerboard in exactly the manner in your photo. John Paul Jones' tone on the studio version of "communication breakdown" is the best example I've heard of that tone. Pluck around the 20th fret with a kind of tapping onto the fingerboard and you can nail it.... It works on fretless too but on a fretted bass it's totally 60's old school bass sound. great stuff :)

LS


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