Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

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Bass Viking
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Bass Viking » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:02 am

Here`s another comment from the Talkbass thread:

Interestingly their website (for "In Stock Guitars") says "These are new instruments, and are fully covered by Kiesel Guitars' 5 Year Warranty and 10-Day No Risk Trial."
Only specific instruments have a note "NO 10-DAY TRIAL OR RETURNS ON THIS INSTRUMENT"
So yes, it is stated. And in fact, because it's only on specific instruments, it says to me "we think this instrument sucks, and we'd like to stick you with it."
No Kiesel for me, thanks, for many reasons.


Ah well, I guess I can just laugh at the absurdity of it!

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spudmunkey
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:04 am

My favorite is folks who have a sincere hatred because a) they don't have a virtual builder, and b) they aren't sold in stores.

"HOW AM I SUPPOZED TO NO WHAT TO ORDER OR WHAT ITLL LOOK LYKE?!?!"

Then don't order a custom, made-for-you guitar if you aren't certain you know what you want, and aren't willing to throw caution to the wind to try something new. PRS, Ibanez, Music Man, and "the big two" have thousands of stores stocked with plenty of instruments you can try...and at least a handfull of them are actually good. :lol:

Bass Viking
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Bass Viking » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:29 am

spudmunkey wrote:
Bass Viking wrote:[i]- The 10 day trial period isn`t long enough, it should be 30 days, or 45 days like Guitar Center.


That's like saying a restaurant should let you send a meal back to the kitchen for re-firing 3 days after you get home from the meal. :laughhard:


LMAO!

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Koshchei
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Koshchei » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:15 pm

The only conclusion that anybody can reach after reading a few threads on talkbass.com is that it's populated by really angry people who hate bass guitar.

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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Bliff Curton » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:47 pm

Talk Bass is not the only forum where people are expressing their awful experiences with Kiesel.

Each of these threads states how Kiesel has changed drastically from the good ol Carvin days. The fall is due to QC and Customer Service problems.

Facebook has a couple groups sharing bad Kiesel experiences.

Ummm, here is a 122-page thread on 7string
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/kies ... 32/page-87

Another forum, rig-talk, which has a good number of kiesel complaint threads
https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopi ... 3&t=187387
https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopi ... 3&t=194202

Ultimate-guitar forum
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/s ... ?t=1797174
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/s ... ?t=1819292

Gear-net
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... 092/page-8

Mark Wein, teacher
https://markweinguitarlessons.com/forum ... saw.78466/

There are vastly more threads about “Kiesel sucks” but no point in me wasting my day to search and paste them all.
The point is, its not an isolated incidient nor is it just a group of unhappy children at Talk Bass.
I get sticking by a company that you like, I did so with Carvin only to get burned, badly, by Kiesel. But dont be ignorant and claim that anyone who becries the lack of integrity and quality at Kiesel are just angry people who hate bass.

Carvin was awesome. Kiesel has a big ego and a bad attitude - I mean, they friggin hung up on me.

So lets be honest and not blindly, ignorantly, disregard the hundreds of Kiesel Sucks threads on dozens of forums, including Facebook.

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Koshchei
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Koshchei » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:03 pm

And suddenly it all becomes clear: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/nbd-ki ... 5.1370297/

This post on page 9 sums the situation up nicely:

"Well so far, I'm not sure what Keisel needs to explain.
They sold a non returnable bass to someone. It was on the website, and the buyer acknowledged that it was not returnable or refundable before the ourchase.
Buyer doesn't like the bass for whatever reason, writes an email and calls asking to return a bass and get a refund.
Keisel restates their no return no refund policy that the buyer agreed to before purchase, but will take the bass back for warranty work for the next 5 years, per the terms agreed to before purchase.
Buyer writes another email direct to the owner of the company threatening to reverse payment with his credit card company if no refund is given (I'm assuming refund is the only resolution, because the sales manager offered to take the bass and make repairs covered by warranty work, and the buyer was not satisfied.).
The return email again restates the no refund no return policy that the buyer agreed to, and again offered warranty work for 5 years.
Meanwhile,
Folks in an internet thread, including a few who have a dislike for Carvin as a whole, agree that a bass that they've never heard or played is defective on the whole, and demand the company refund the purchase price of the bass.

In fact, 3 or 4 decide they will never purchase a Carvin bass because they will not refund a bass that was sold as non refundable.
1 guy even feels he is owed an apology because some other guy got hung up on.
To be clear, if someone from Keisel were to read this thread (and it was suggested that they had already done so, and were unaccommodating as a result, even though the person had not even read the 1st email of complaint until on the phone with the buyer) here is what they would find:
Suggestions that Keisel only do direct sales because they know they have inferior product.
In stock instruments listed as non returnable are knowingly defective.
Accused of "questionable integrity" for unspecified "business practices."
And my personal favorite
Step by step advice about how to defraud the credit card company and keisel, by lying about what was said during a phone conversation, despite having emails and sales receipts to the contrary.
Keisel is doing what they said they would do."

My sympathy for you just disappeared - I hope you don't mind that I've forwarded the thread to Kiesel, in particular the bits about committing fraud. I'm sure it'll be fine though; a guy who says he's a lawyer on a forum somewhere says that things posted on the internet don't count as evidence. ;)

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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Bliff Curton » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:23 pm

I already emailed Kiesel that thread on TB and my thread on KieselBBS

And you quoted posts that are not mine.

Nice try on the gotchya attempt, but swing and a miss.

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Koshchei
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby Koshchei » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:32 pm

This isn't a gotcha attempt; this is me being appalled by some seriously disreputable behaviour.

I know the summary isn't by you -- it's by somebody on talkbass who summarized the thread quite well. It seemed a bit more a propos than writing one of my own.

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UnexplodedCow
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Re: Carvin Bashing on Talkbass

Postby UnexplodedCow » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:06 pm

This one went ugly, fast.

In a more positive tone, I actually did have a warranty claim with the recent Z6X that was ordered. The trem post holes were drilled slightly leaned forward. Grand total was around 3.8 degrees, even accounting for any thread slop. I methodically documented it, took pictures, and measured quickly, later measuring more. Kiesel readily accepted the warranty return, paid shipping both ways, and I had it back in my hands in two weeks, so it spent a couple days at the factory. The holes were re-drilled and shimmed accordingly, which is not a bad approach. Could they have been plugged, redrilled completely and refinished? Eh, it's debatable. The result is a guitar that holds tune exactly as hoped, and it arrived in tune, like other Carvins/Kiesels I've had. I've heard horror stories about warranty returns, and approached with some trepidation, but it was unwarranted, because they took care of me, and the problem, quickly. I've had *very few* companies handle things this well, and courteously. So there's at least one glowing review out there from me saying that *if* there is a QC issue, they *will* resolve it, and not in a disrespectful manner.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

Guitar theorem: G=X+1 where G= guitars one needs, and X = guitars one has.

Do or do not; there is no understand.


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