Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

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Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:55 am

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Chances are if you buy a new Kiesel you're going to have to deal with pretty significant fret sprout (which I've dubbed Kieselitis), especially if you choose any type of ebony, maple, or zebrawood board (you're safer if you choose bloodwood, purpleheart, or rosewood). It just is what it is with Kiesel and I'll keep my opinions about why to myself. But, if you have a tung oiled neck, it's pretty easy to take care of without the hassle and expense of shipping it back to them, finding and paying a local tech for each guitar, etc etc etc.

Buy these suckers for twenty bucks and wait until your guitar has its most offensive Kieselitis. Mask around the neck pocket or remove neck if possible, and run these over the fret ends in kind of a circular motion like you were brushing teeth, in order from coarse to X-fine. The steel backing is thick and won't flex, so will ride on the offending fret ends. A few minutes of work, and you're done. It's so easy a caveman could do it, and if you're timed it correctly you'll never have to do it again. Got a little enthusiastic? Apply one quick swipe of Minwax tung oil to the spot and you're golden. Sure beats paying for shipping or $50+ per guitar plus time.

Sorry, finished neck guys...don't know what to tell you. Although Kieselitis lifts the finish and looks ugly, at least the finish remains over the fret end and doesn't try to draw blood.
Last edited by GuitFiddle on Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby kamih » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:38 pm

My ebony board CT has fret sprout. :(
I live in Colorado. It's very dry here. I'm also an idiot and didn't know I had to take the little desiccant pack out of the case when I received it (I now have a sponge-in-soapbox humidifier in there).

Thanks to the "finish bubbles" I don't really feel the fret tangs sticking out of the sides. However some of the frets have very sharp burrs at the edge/top of the fretboard, and I actually had to carefully file one so it wouldn't slice my finger...
For now I'll leave it as is since it's not even a year old, but in the future I may just sand the edges. Not sure what I'd do finish wise though.
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Last edited by kamih on Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby ElfDude » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:32 am

kamih wrote:My ebony board CT has Kieselitis. :(
I live in Colorado. It's very dry here.


I'm your neighbor in the high desert of Utah. It's a real problem here too.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby helldorado » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:27 am

ElfDude wrote:
kamih wrote:My ebony board CT has Kieselitis. :(
I live in Colorado. It's very dry here.


I'm your neighbor in the high desert of Utah. It's a real problem here too.


The wife and I are planning to move to AZ in a couple years. I can hardly wait to see what happens to my collection when we move from the swamps of LA to the desert. My guitars literally sit 500 feet from a bayou. :lol: :roll:

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 am

helldorado wrote:
ElfDude wrote:
kamih wrote:My ebony board CT has Kieselitis. :(
I live in Colorado. It's very dry here.


I'm your neighbor in the high desert of Utah. It's a real problem here too.


The wife and I are planning to move to AZ in a couple years. I can hardly wait to see what happens to my collection when we move from the swamps of LA to the desert. My guitars literally sit 500 feet from a bayou. :lol: :roll:


I also live in CO...and will also be moving to AZ in about a year and a half. I don't expect much to change. Frankly CO is just brutal on guitars, if anything the AZ climate will probably be more consistent. While I experience zero sprout on my other guitars, I consider Kieselitis part of the brand's 'charm' at this point. I used to get aggravated about it, but when the fix is this fast, easy, and cheap, it no longer bothers me. I just can't figure out why it only happens to them.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:37 am

Eh, my Gibson Les Paul had it, my Prestige S Ibanez with binding had it (the frets cracked the binding at every fret), my mexican strat had it, my Korean Cort acoustic had it, and my AC375 had it. My Carvin 2008 CS6 (ebony) and my 2016 Aries (royal ebony) seem to have escaped it so far.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:55 pm

Apparently the Schecter custom shop and Godin have magical wood grown in a clearing filled with little flowers whose pollen is pixie dust and the dew is honey water. Somehow, never one iota of wood stability problems out of numerous examples of both. In all fairness, my Osiris guitar with a bloodwood board has experienced zero Kieselitis. Oddly, it's doppelganger bass brother has experienced a minor case of it, despite having identical construction. :? I have a maple board Vader in transit from the mother ship as we speak. I am fully expecting and prepared to wage an epic Kieselitis war with this one. Peace through strength and all that.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby micmil » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:38 pm

"I live in a very dry climate and the fretboard wood has shrunk to the point where the fret ends are slightly pokey! Clearly this is the manufacturer's fault."

:wall:

Buy a humidifier and watch this problem that is endemic to literally every piece of wood that has ever had a fret shoved into it disappear.

At the end of the day almost every issue people blame on poor manufacturing can be traced to poor storage conditions, specifically relating to humidity or lack thereof.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:11 pm

micmil wrote:"I live in a very dry climate and the fretboard wood has shrunk to the point where the fret ends are slightly pokey! Clearly this is the manufacturer's fault."

:wall:

Buy a humidifier and watch this problem that is endemic to literally every piece of wood that has ever had a fret shoved into it disappear.

At the end of the day almost every issue people blame on poor manufacturing can be traced to poor storage conditions, specifically relating to humidity or lack thereof.



Perhaps...but even I'll admit that I've seen quite a few posts from others (not myself) who have expressed that only their carvins/Kiesels have the issue, or at least it's more common with them.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby micmil » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:38 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Perhaps...but even I'll admit that I've seen quite a few posts from others (not myself) who have expressed that only their carvins/Kiesels have the issue, or at least it's more common with them.


I can find just as many anecdotes from people claiming that only their Gibsons do it, or only their Fenders, and so on. You're in a Kiesel echo chamber. Any problems will be magnified a hundred fold because this is the place people will go to complain about any and every problem. If someone has 10 Fenders with fret sprout and 1 Kiesel are they going to go to the Kiesel forum to complain? No. They're going to go to The Gear Page and generate a 3,000 post thread about the small slice of paper in their neck pocket. :lol:

GuitFiddle wrote:Oddly, it's doppelganger bass brother has experienced a minor case of it


This is not odd. They are two different pieces of wood, probably from different trees, and even wood cut from different parts of the same tree will act in varying ways. Every piece of wood is individual, and it's still "living". Not in a literal sense but in the fact that it will absorb and release moisture. It will twist and turn and bend and warp, often in imperceptible ways, sometimes creating Hot Wheels tracks.

Which is why it's asinine to assign a common problem to a specific manufacturer. It can and will happen with anything, anytime, anywhere. There's one important thing to note though...

It's MUCH more difficult to notice on guitars with binding, and what does Kiesel not do? :mrgreen:

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby helldorado » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:43 am

The roasted necks *should* avoid this issue altogether, which is another good reason to consider the option.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:53 am

This passionate defensive discourse of Kiesel and the tongue-in-cheek insinuation of irresponsible or ignorant ownership does nothing to change the fact that ALL of my problem instruments have been Kiesels and NONE have been from any other brands (not just Schecter and Godin), binding or not, and that's a history which is years long and includes an embarrassingly large number of guitars . As with everything in the world, YMMV, and apparently it has; mine has not. We get it.

Consider that there are hundreds of millions of pieces of solid wooden furniture in people's homes, like tables and dressers, often with metal hardware inset or mounted to them for things like adding a leaf, etc. Now consider how many people actually maintain specific humidity levels throughout their home in order to protect their furniture from shrinkage or warping. Consider still further the amount of that furniture develops functional problems due to less-than-perfect conditions.

The point? Wood is everywhere, most doesn't get treated to anywhere near the level of instrument wood, it doesn't get coddled, and it's serviceability maintains intact. If I'm honest, I think having to make an effort to humidify a solid plank of specifically seasoned wood sealed in an impenetrable finish just to keep it stable in service is utterly ridiculous. Lucky for me, if I ever decide I need to go down that route (I won't), I'll only have to target my Kiesels. They are the only ones exhibiting dimensional instability. Hmm, wonder why...
Last edited by GuitFiddle on Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:02 am

helldorado wrote:The roasted necks *should* avoid this issue altogether, which is another good reason to consider the option.


I certainly thought so, until Charvels and Chapmans with roasted necks started showing up at my local Geetar Mart and developing razor-saw level sprout. You couldn't even pick them up by the neck without risking a cut. Based on the torrefaction process and what it does to the wood at the molecular level, this theoretically isn't even possible....yet there it was for the world to see. I can't understand it. :?

I have no experience with roasted Kiesels though.
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby helldorado » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:12 am

GuitFiddle wrote:
helldorado wrote:The roasted necks *should* avoid this issue altogether, which is another good reason to consider the option.


I certainly thought so, until Charvels and Chapmans with roasted necks started showing up at my local Geetar Mart and developing razor-saw level sprout. You couldn't even pick them up by the neck without risking a cut. Based on the torrefaction process and what it does to the wood at the molecular level, this theoretically isn't even possible....yet there it was for the world to see. I can't understand it. :?

I have no experience with roasted Kiesels though.


I question if the higher volume AP manufactured guitars roast long enough for the wood to actually be completely torrified or if they just do enough so it has the look. Because if its done right, the wood should be torrefied all the way through to the center of the piece.

I'm assuming Kiesel does their due diligence with any new process like that so it's done correctly and fully. I got my first roasted neck the other week on a used Aries I picked up, so I'm interested to see how it holds up.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:11 am

helldorado wrote:I'm assuming Kiesel does their due diligence with any new process like that so it's done correctly and fully. I got my first roasted neck the other week on a used Aries I picked up, so I'm interested to see how it holds up.


One of the things Kiesel pointed out when they released their option, was that they specifcally roasted them less than some other manufacturers to avoid challenges with over-treated wood being too brittle to be able to machine reliably, and that's why their color might be lighter than some other manufacturer's roasted wood offerings.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby micmil » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:34 pm

GuitFiddle wrote:If I'm honest, I think having to make an effort to humidify a solid plank of specifically seasoned wood sealed in an impenetrable finish just to keep it stable in service is utterly ridiculous.


In other words your ignorance is entirely willful and predicated on your precious fee-fees rather than what actual real-world facts say. Whether the wood is seasoned does not matter. Humidity, or lack thereof, will still effect it. The only thing seasoning does, in practice, is ensure that the amount of change over time is kept to a narrower humidity band. It is VERY difficult to bring a piece of wood back to fresh-cut levels unless you drop the sombitch in water and leave it there. This will have obvious repercussions. By the same token, building a fresh cut piece of wood into a guitar will have the exact same (and worse) repercussions as the wood dries over time. None of this keeps the wood from changing over time, it simply makes that change more manageable. It is not magic. There is no magic.

The assertion that a finish is "impenetrable" illustrates how little you know as compared to how much you think you do. Humidity can and will penetrate any finish. Don't believe me? Go ahead and huck it in the lake for a day and tell me how that goes. Congratulations, you've just simulated a few months worth of humidty at once. An "impenetrable" finish won't allow anything to happen but guess what? No widely used guitar finish is impenetrable. That's especially true for the tung oil used on a large number of Kiesels.


GuitFiddle wrote:Consider that there are hundreds of millions of pieces of solid wooden furniture in people's homes, like tables and dressers, often with metal hardware inset or mounted to them for things like adding a leaf, etc. Now consider how many people actually maintain specific humidity levels throughout their home in order to protect their furniture from shrinkage or warping. Consider still further the amount of that furniture develops functional problems due to less-than-perfect conditions.

The point? Wood is everywhere, most doesn't get treated to anywhere near the level of instrument wood, it doesn't get coddled, and it's serviceability maintains intact.


This is the most asinine thing that's been said in this thread so far on so many levels.

If your coffee table's leg bends 1/32nd of an inch you will not notice. If your guitar's neck bends 1/32nd of an inch it needs a setup. Almost like they're two different things with different uses and parameters within which they're useful. Wow! Who'd have thought that a coffee table and a guitar aren't the same thing?!??!

This also ignores the fact that wood furniture, quite often, bends and warps to such an extent that it's unusable without significant restoration BECAUSE nobody gives a darn about humidity in their home. Drawers get stuck, doors shift, panels loosen, all because of humidity levels.

By trying to make a point without knowing anything you essentially shot yourself in the taint. Don't shoot yourself in the taint. It's painful and makes you walk funny.

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby HarlowTheFish » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:13 am

@micmil I mean tbf I get that that's a thing and I work around it - I'm also gonna bitching about it and saying it's ridiculous :wink:

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby GuitFiddle » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:50 pm

micmil wrote:
GuitFiddle wrote:If I'm honest, I think having to make an effort to humidify a solid plank of specifically seasoned wood sealed in an impenetrable finish just to keep it stable in service is utterly ridiculous.


In other words your ignorance is entirely willful and predicated on your precious fee-fees rather than what actual real-world facts say. Whether the wood is seasoned does not matter. Humidity, or lack thereof, will still effect it. The only thing seasoning does, in practice, is ensure that the amount of change over time is kept to a narrower humidity band. It is VERY difficult to bring a piece of wood back to fresh-cut levels unless you drop the sombitch in water and leave it there. This will have obvious repercussions. By the same token, building a fresh cut piece of wood into a guitar will have the exact same (and worse) repercussions as the wood dries over time. None of this keeps the wood from changing over time, it simply makes that change more manageable. It is not magic. There is no magic.

The assertion that a finish is "impenetrable" illustrates how little you know as compared to how much you think you do. Humidity can and will penetrate any finish. Don't believe me? Go ahead and huck it in the lake for a day and tell me how that goes. Congratulations, you've just simulated a few months worth of humidty at once. An "impenetrable" finish won't allow anything to happen but guess what? No widely used guitar finish is impenetrable. That's especially true for the tung oil used on a large number of Kiesels.


GuitFiddle wrote:Consider that there are hundreds of millions of pieces of solid wooden furniture in people's homes, like tables and dressers, often with metal hardware inset or mounted to them for things like adding a leaf, etc. Now consider how many people actually maintain specific humidity levels throughout their home in order to protect their furniture from shrinkage or warping. Consider still further the amount of that furniture develops functional problems due to less-than-perfect conditions.

The point? Wood is everywhere, most doesn't get treated to anywhere near the level of instrument wood, it doesn't get coddled, and it's serviceability maintains intact.


This is the most asinine thing that's been said in this thread so far on so many levels.

If your coffee table's leg bends 1/32nd of an inch you will not notice. If your guitar's neck bends 1/32nd of an inch it needs a setup. Almost like they're two different things with different uses and parameters within which they're useful. Wow! Who'd have thought that a coffee table and a guitar aren't the same thing?!??!

This also ignores the fact that wood furniture, quite often, bends and warps to such an extent that it's unusable without significant restoration BECAUSE nobody gives a darn about humidity in their home. Drawers get stuck, doors shift, panels loosen, all because of humidity levels.

By trying to make a point without knowing anything you essentially shot yourself in the taint. Don't shoot yourself in the taint. It's painful and makes you walk funny.


That's an awful lot of writing, and yet it STILL doesn't change the fact that my Kiesels suffer from dimensional stability related issues while none of my others ever have. You should write some more about it...and do it so hard that it actually changes that fact. :stir: Let's face it - finding someone wound so tight on the interwebs is really just a gift. It's just too easy. :lol:
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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby micmil » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:42 am

GuitFiddle wrote:That's an awful lot of writing, and yet it STILL doesn't change the fact that my Kiesels suffer from dimensional stability related issues while none of my others ever have. You should write some more about it...and do it so hard that it actually changes that fact. :stir: Let's face it - finding someone wound so tight on the interwebs is really just a gift. It's just too easy. :lol:


In other words you're too lazy and unwilling to actually learn anything so you're going to bitch and moan rather than lift a finger to keep problems from happening.

MURICA, ladies and gentlemen. :roll:

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Re: Buy these for Kieselitis (fret sprout)

Postby HarlowTheFish » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:15 pm

micmil wrote:
GuitFiddle wrote:That's an awful lot of writing, and yet it STILL doesn't change the fact that my Kiesels suffer from dimensional stability related issues while none of my others ever have. You should write some more about it...and do it so hard that it actually changes that fact. :stir: Let's face it - finding someone wound so tight on the interwebs is really just a gift. It's just too easy. :lol:


In other words you're too lazy and unwilling to actually learn anything so you're going to bitch and moan rather than lift a finger to keep problems from happening.

MURICA, ladies and gentlemen. :roll:

Nah that's not 'murica, that's just every guitar player I've ever met. We're a bunch of lazy bastards.


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