Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

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amon
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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:49 am

The Sweetwater link you provided says $1499.

Let's build the same thing from Warmoth parts, except with some better options.


$467 - Swamp Ash body, satin Vintage Yellow tint, all body contours, .09" one-ply pickguard, Bolt plate and bolts
$496 - Quartersawn Maple neck, QS Maple fingerboard, conical taper radius, SS frets, 59 round profile, Graphtech TUSQ Earvana nut, satin Vintage Yellow tint to properly match the body
$350 - Fluence Gristletone pickups and control assembly
$115 - Schroeder TL Bridge
$105 - JinHo locking tuners and a designer hardshell case from GFS
$42 - Gotoh Titanium saddles
$16 - QParts knobs (2)

That comes up to $1591, which is only $92 more than what the far-inferior Fender production model costs. Swap the Fishman pickups for some Mojotone Quiet Coils and we can get it under the Fender price.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:05 am

amon wrote:The Sweetwater link you provided says $1499.

Let's build the same thing from Warmoth parts, except with some better options.


$467 - Swamp Ash body, satin Vintage Yellow tint, all body contours, .09" one-ply pickguard, Bolt plate and bolts
$496 - Quartersawn Maple neck, QS Maple fingerboard, conical taper radius, SS frets, 59 round profile, Graphtech TUSQ Earvana nut, satin Vintage Yellow tint to properly match the body
$350 - Fluence Gristletone pickups and control assembly
$115 - Schroeder TL Bridge
$105 - JinHo locking tuners and a designer hardshell case from GFS
$42 - Gotoh Titanium saddles
$16 - QParts knobs (2)

That comes up to $1591, which is only $92 more than what the far-inferior Fender production model costs. Swap the Fishman pickups for some Mojotone Quiet Coils and we can get it under the Fender price.


Honestly, I'd keep the Fluence pickups. The parts are still not cheap overall, but 'tis not bad compared to the Fender.

Keep in mind that Fender has advertising and distributing costs to recover, which will mark up the price of the instrument. Most likely, if they had a model more like Warmoth, they'd probably be considerably cheaper.
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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:18 am

Warmoth also advertises. Their model is building one-off parts to customer spec. If they were pumping out mass quantities of standardized parts, they'd probably be cheaper. GFS sells a Butterscotch Swamp Ash Tele body for $90.

Fender has a "build your own" program (or they did, I can't seem to find it right now) and their base price (IIRC) was two grand. Their menu of options was a joke compared to Warmoth.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:08 am

EDIT: I just actually read your post a little closer.. wait.. are you talking about building your own guitar at 1500+ from Warmouth parts that you have to put together?? And that the fully assembled guitar from Fender with a flight/road case at 1399 is too expensive? :lol:
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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:27 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:EDIT: I just actually read your post a little closer.. wait.. are you talking about building your own guitar at 1500+ from Warmouth parts that you have to put together?? And that the fully assembled guitar from Fender with a flight/road case at 1399 is too expensive? :lol:


Well, I suppose there's a "too expensive...for what you get" in there. In his Warmoth build, there's lots of upgrades. It's like an optioned-up BMW 3 series can cost way more than a base model 5-series, for example. Just like Kiesel...you can bet a shredders dream for $1000 in terms of playability, and then add 3 times the whole guitar's cost in upgrades..and in the case of that Warmoth spec list, it's a lot of *functional* upgrades, not just aesthetic.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Doctor Turn » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:54 pm

This thread is awesome.. a pile of unassembled kit parts (with but the most minor upgrades w tuner and neck lumber.. not the biggest fan of the Gristle Tone pickups, Amon and I already discussed that elsewhere.. I think the Shaws kill them) that exist as a guitar only in the mind of my interlocutor are being declared not only definitively better, but a better value, being unassembled and more expensive! And unheard!

Ah, gear and the internet.

Anyhow, the Warmouth sounds like it would be a very nice knockoff, and might sound quite good!
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1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:33 pm

I just bought an eliptical. I could have paid $200 more to have it assembled, but instead spend that $200 on an upgraded model, and built it myself, and feel like I got better value out of it. :) Doesnt' seem to out-of-the-realm of a plausible outcome on a factory-built-"kit" vs a mass-produced guitar, as well. :)

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:36 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:wait.. are you talking about building your own guitar at 1500+ from Warmouth [sic] parts that you have to put together??

Yeah, because it's not hard to put a pre-finished bolt-neck guitar together. If you can't do it, that's on you.

And I would have to disassemble the Fender to sand down the gloss finish, anyway.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:38 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:not the biggest fan of the Gristle Tone pickups, Amon and I already discussed that elsewhere.. I think the Shaws kill them

Like I said, swap the Fishman pickups for anything else — Mojotone, Lollar, Rio Grande, whatever — and the price tag drops below the cost of the Fender.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:52 pm

Let's build one EXACTLY like the Fender...


$454 - Swamp Ash slab body (no contours), Butterscotch Blonde finish, all hardware and pickguard
$277 - One-piece Maple neck, Vintage Modern construction, conical taper radius*, nickel frets, TUSQ standard nut, clear finish
$169 - Shaw pickups**
$35 - JinHo locking tuners***
$149 - Fender case****


Grand total of $1084.



* Single-radius is an upcharge
** Same price as the Mojotone "52 Clone" set, which is even lower DCR than the Shaws and have Alnico-3 magnets
*** The best tuners are also the cheapest
**** I'd rather have the less expensive plywood case, but whatever

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:40 pm

amon wrote:** Same price as the Mojotone "52 Clone" set, which is even lower DCR than the Shaws and have Alnico-3 magnets



Tim Shaw V-Mod set - $169
Neck - 5.9K (A5/A2)
Bridge - 7.5K (A5)

Mojotone 52 Clone set - $169
Neck - 5.8k (A3)
Bridge - 6.4k (A3)

Artec T set - $35.32 (from EY Parts)
Neck - 5.1K (A5)
Bridge - 6.2K (A5)

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby UnexplodedCow » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:56 pm

JinHo tuners are on about every import guitar I have seen, are also branded as Wilkinson EZ lock tuners, and possibly are used by Hipshot, as their locking tuners are superb, and I believe Korean made. I have no qualms using them.

Now, what if someone took a TLB kit from Kiesel, and modified it with a Tele bridge setup, and appropriate pickups? What would it sound like? How much would it cost, in its unfinished state?

Also, I do like Warmoth's use of torrefied maple necks, and I believe they can do bodies, too. Not a cheap option, but the end result is worth it. Kit builds are fun. So is being able to pick up a guitar ready to play. I am far more of a tweaker, so a kit is more my thing. Also, Fender has this thing of typically using small fretboard radii that I don't get on with very well. They have their place, and I own a tiny fretted, 7.5" radius Jag, but it is not built for speed with my hands. Kit buildsdo offer that.

I once assembled a Tele from salvaged parts, including a Jackson Dinky neck. It sounded like I expected it to, and played pretty well with the flatter radius and jumbo frets. That was a fun build, and I learned much about frets and leveling them.
We are entitled to our own, wrong, opinions.

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:20 am

amon wrote:
Doctor Turn wrote:wait.. are you talking about building your own guitar at 1500+ from Warmouth [sic] parts that you have to put together??

Yeah, because it's not hard to put a pre-finished bolt-neck guitar together. If you can't do it, that's on you.

And I would have to disassemble the Fender to sand down the gloss finish, anyway.


More evidence you haven't played the Fender, which makes this conversation bizarre: there's no gloss finish on the neck of the Fender.

Spud: home workout equipment is sold in an unassembled box all the time as the primary means of sale. They don't come in the box, assembled like guitars do. It's not quick and simple, putting a guitar together, polishing and finishing... And Amon, I prefer to spend my downtime writing recording and playing with the boys. I'm not putting it down by any means, but building my own guitar (I was just having this conversation with an old drummer last week) is as attractive to me as doing my own dentistry. Sure I'd save some money... But I'd miss the warranty and I doubt I'd do as good a job! :laughhard:

Seriously.. I'm like seriously backlogged just in terms of what I can get done with all of my projects. And really, all I see is a decent knock off Tele with a huge pia factor. I'm not a builder. I told you guys a long time ago, I get to no pleasure from home tech.

Guys, build your guitar and bring a demo around. That'd be cool, (Amon: "Spud Spud! You just dripped solder into my eyeball." Spud: "Something smells icky.") then we can at least have a somewhat worthwhile discussion. Amon, it's clear you haven't played the Fender. Maybe you'll seriously find that they've addressed the majority of the issues that you had with Teles... It's why I was so blown away by it.

The whole shebang.. it just plays like butter in my hands. I went into Sam Ash yesterday on lunch and played a Baja and other Teles to compare, and the kismet wasn't anywhere near as severe! Love it!
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1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby amon » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:07 am

Doctor Turn wrote:More evidence you haven't played the Fender, which makes this conversation bizarre: there's no gloss finish on the neck of the Fender.

Even the body.

Doctor Turn wrote:Sure I'd save some money... But I'd miss the warranty and I doubt I'd do as good a job! :laughhard:

It's very easy. The hardest part is wiring the switch. You could probably just figure out 90% of it and then watch some YouTube videos to finish up. Worst case scenario, have a repair person finish it off for less than a hundred bucks.

And qu'est-ce que c'est... warranty? I have never, ever had any warranty work done on any of my gear.

Doctor Turn wrote:Amon, it's clear you haven't played the Fender. Maybe you'll seriously find that they've addressed the majority of the issues that you had with Teles...

I doubt it. I currently own 88 guitars, four of which are bolt-neck Teles. I have owned more guitars than that, and have played A LOT more than that. I don't need to lay hands on something to know how I'll react to certain things about it. Fender has never made an instrument that can even begin to compare with the options list Warmoth offers.

Except for maybe the Katana. :mrgreen:

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:50 am

(and still never played a real PAF.. baZOING!) :applause:

On that last round about all of your guitars and how many you've played:

With great affection I say to you Amon you wonderful rogue:

Watch as I shall now hoist a pinwheel to let in spin in glorious tribute! I've been playing "formally and officially" (because there was always an acoustic in the house when I was born, so the number is higher than this) for 41 years and have owned and played countless guitars as well. Doesn't mean anything (notwithstanding I've never heard an exposed note of your playing or a demo of any of those store bought or bench guitars of yours to figure out what you're up to over there).

In music, I always try to keep to a line Eric Dolphy once said, "The more you learn, the more there is to learn." Which is kind of an extension of the famous line in As You Like It, "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." In and of itself, musically, owning lots of guitars gives evidence only of financial status. It could mean that you keep misfiring and have no idea what you want!

I say this because it's now confirmed that you're panning a guitar that you haven't played (the whole point of its existence being that fact that it's been truly remade from ground zero, on every level from bridge, pickups, pots, frets, neck profile, nut, tuners, finish, case, I think literally the only thing that remains from the guitars we're both not completely crazy about is the name) with a hypothetical guitar you haven't built. Simply because there's a set of locking tuners and a quarter sawn neck.

You're entitled to that opinion, which is really just a bias against the Fender mainline, I guess. But IF you plan on building this hypothetical kit Tele, and you're going to use the American Professional as the template as above... Well, at least play the original.

(Btw if you've owned and played all those fenders, and never had cause to invoke the warranty over an issue, as happens from time to time here w K, and with Gibson up the wazoo and Ibanez and so many other guitars, with issues discussed on forums daily.. that's awesome! Sounds like you got some well made guitars! :mrgreen:)
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby arahobob » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:37 am

amon wrote:Let's build one EXACTLY like the Fender...


$454 - Swamp Ash slab body (no contours), Butterscotch Blonde finish, all hardware and pickguard
$277 - One-piece Maple neck, Vintage Modern construction, conical taper radius*, nickel frets, TUSQ standard nut, clear finish
$169 - Shaw pickups**
$35 - JinHo locking tuners***
$149 - Fender case****


Grand total of $1084.


So that leaves Fender with around $300 for installation labor costs.
Not that unreasonable when I see it broken out like this tbh.
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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Naked Ape » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:22 pm

*****Beating A Dead Horse"*****

Doc, The Fender Pro Telecaster is an excellent variation of a 'Classic', that has been mildly refined with subtle updates to modernize, without loosing sight of the 'Original'. I LIKE IT!!!! Yes, I've played it. I would like to own one! GET IT!!!

Some here think the C/K brand is the 'Only' one. Anything else is 'The Dark Side'
Others think anything 'THEY' don't like....... "Sucks" ........
You know who you are. :wink:

I like to try as many different brands, shapes, materials, etc. as I can.
I like C/K, but they only have one neck profile to choose from(for each model) with some choices of thickness, take months to receive, etc., and resale is not good.
I like Warmoth with their wide variety of shapes, profiles, materials, etc., but resale value is not great.
I like to build my own guitars from scratch, but it takes a lot of time, effort, but resale is terrible unless the buyer knows me.
Fender/Gibson don't always make the 'Exact' model I want, but resale is Great, and they are the originators of the 'Classics'.
I just owned, played, and loved a Gibson of mine for years. There is something else I want now, so I sold it. I made a 'HUGE' profit. :mrgreen:
Pick your poison. Who's right? Who's wrong?
We ALL love guitars....That I know!

I believe ...."The best you've played...Is the best you know".

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These are my opinions, and I have no interest in going back and forth trying to defend anything I said. So save it. :sounchick:

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby spudmunkey » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:01 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:Spud: home workout equipment is sold in an unassembled box all the time as the primary means of sale. They don't come in the box, assembled like guitars do.


...unless it's a guitar like Warmoth builds all the time, like the specs he actually posted, which is every single component sanded, painted/stained and finished for assembly. :mrgreen:

I don't have anything else to add, but thought that was worth pointing out. :) Is it more complicated than an assembled guitar? Yep. Is it "worse"? Depends on who you ask. It isn't for those who enjoy it, and have the time.

For the record, my favorite burger places are the ones that serve you a burger with the top bun on the side, with the lettuce tomato and onion on it, not already stacked on the bottom half with the burger and cheese. It's all finished, you just have to put it together myself. :stir: :lol:

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby Doctor Turn » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:22 pm

Burgers now. :shock:

So in summary: some guys on the internet said some stuff about a telecaster.

**Curtain**
Carvin Weaponry:
1985 DC150K (koa) Stereo, M22N/M22SD w/black hardware.
1985 100 Watt X Amp 2 x 12 combo (XV212) upgraded w/ 2 Vintage 30's
...and other gear.

https://soundcloud.com/the_heavy_clouds

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Re: Telecaster Thread? Tele thread...

Postby arahobob » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:53 pm

Doctor Turn wrote:Burgers now. :shock:

So in summary: some guys on the internet said some stuff about a telecaster.

**Curtain**



This thread still has me itching to test drive teles!
Current Carvins:
2010 Bolt (Candy Red Metallic)
2013 Bolt Plus (Koa)
2016 Black n Blue VSEVEN
2017 TT SCB6

Wish List
Some sort of multiscale 6 HSS with RAD ASH
JB Numbers Guitar (July sale has given me the itch!)


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