Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

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jeb
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Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:14 am

Hi Folks!
I'm the owner of this beautiful instrument :


Image

The guitar plays awesome and it's really really light... perfect for my bad back.

The problem is that there is a strange high pitch/hollow sound coming out when I play high gain on the open low E and A strings. Almost like a whistle sound
You can clearly hear it : Sample

I contacted the support about the problem... I got and awesome support and the guitar went back to Kiesel.
Some weeks after I got a email saying that the guitar is OK and the guitar went back to me. They said that all the electronics where replaced.

Unfortunately, I got the guitar back with the same problem.

Before contacting the support again, me and my guitar tech tried a lot of things.
- Foam under the strings right after the nut did not resolve the issue.
- My guitar tech routed the magnetic signal directly to the output, bypassing the piezo board. The problem still there.
- I removed the low E piezo saddle and installed a regular saddle and the problem still persist.
- I play live with a line 6 Helix, I also own Helix native with a focusrite pro 24 audio interface and my backup unit is a atomic amplifirebox. The problem is there on all my patches/devices. So I went to a friend music store in my town and tried the guitar on 4 different amps and we heard the problem on each amp.

I contacted the support again and my guitar went back to Kiesel for the second time.
Weeks passed, I asked for some news... I got a reply saying that the tech at Kiesel can't reproduce the problem, that the guitar works like it should and they want to send the guitar back to me.

Now, I'm scared to death to get guitar back again with the same problem. I got the guitar in March, since then I was not able to use it.

Does anyone have an idea on what causing this strange sound? I own a Kiesel TL60 with the piezo and this guitar is perfect! I also own a music-man silhouette special with the piezo and a Ibanez Prestige... those guitars are also perfect.
It's the first guitar I have in my life that act like that.

The specs of the guitar are pretty basic:
Swamp ash chambered body with swamp ash top.
Lithium pups.
Piezo kit.
3 pieces maple/walnut neck with maple board
2+4 headstock

Sorry for the long post! Hopping that someone will have an idea!

Cheers
Jeb

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spudmunkey
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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:32 am

Are you maybe using the piezo with the high gain?

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:53 am

Thanks for chiming in Spudmonkey

The piezo is off.
We tought that there was a problem with the switch for the piezo/mag...
My guitar tech routed the magnetic signal to one output to make sure that there is no piezo signal coming out.

Even in the beginning I plugged the piezo out to my acoustic rig and I got the strange sound on my hi gain patch from the magnetic out.

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby GuitFiddle » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:04 am

It sounds to me like you've essentially narrowed it down to the pickups. I've never used Lithiums nor covered Kiesel pickups of any kind, but it seems like the issue is emanating from there. Could be a magnetic current or resonance from the pickup cover, or some other neat trick from the Lithium. They do have a slightly different magnetic field than most HBs due to the fiber basepalte and shallow bobbin. You've got a hard tail and tried the foam trick, so that's not it.

That sound seemed especially noticeable to me on the A string. If you fret the low E at the 5th, does it do the same thing? Is it open strings only or at various fretted positions as well?
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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:32 am

GuitFiddle! Thanks for your reply!

I only hear the sound when a play the strings open.
I have the non covered version of the lithium on my tl60 I should have put those pups in there aries before shipping it back :(

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby HarlowTheFish » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:06 am

you might be getting some weird buzzing at the nut or one of the low frets. I've had this on a couple of guitars before, and it can be kinda finicky to reproduce depending on your playing style. See if you can get a new nut on it to try it out. It would be less noticeable clean but a lot more apparent with high gain because of the compression.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:01 pm

Great!! Gonna ask the support the check the nut too!

Thanks for the advice!

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby maxpower » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:46 pm

Just a thought...

To my ears, it sounds like harmonics (right around 10 seconds when it starts). Like when you lightly touch the E (or A) string, while you are playing like you are, and sliding your finger up and down the string without actually fretting the string.

I just grabbed one of my guitars and started playing like you were, but then ever so lightly touching the E string with my left hand. At around the 2 fret, I could start to get a similar sound/noise.

If it is harmonics, could the string be hitting the a fret ever so slightly as it is vibrating?

I know some people can get harmonics like that with their right hand near the bridge. It sounds like you might be palm muting. Could that at be a factor?

What ever it is, I hope you are able to solve it. That is a nice guitar.
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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby HarlowTheFish » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:01 pm

When I had nut issues on my Washburn, the string was hitting the 2nd-3rd fret which killed the fundamental and made it sort of harmonicky (in a really nasty way), kinda similar to this.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:43 am

HarlowTheFish wrote:When I had nut issues on my Washburn, the string was hitting the 2nd-3rd fret which killed the fundamental and made it sort of harmonicky (in a really nasty way), kinda similar to this.


Good call, I'll ask them to check that out too!

Thanks for your time!

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:09 am

I once had a guitar that had a nut slot cut juuust a little too deep, and it was hitting the first fret with heavy play. i folded over a tiny piece of paper under the string and it was enough to "fix"the issue on that guitar. I'm not saying that should be the "fix", but it could maybe help diagnose the issue. If the string is ever-so-slightly raised, does the issue go away?

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby dbone » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:32 am

Is your weather humidity temp the same as escondido?
if not this sounds like the type of problem that could go away if conditions were different than yours.
it could be a slightly high fret or possibly at neck adjustment by you at home using a playing card and Kiesels instructions for making adjustments at home.
I concur with the others who feel like it’s possibly a harmonic over tone from a low string just barely touching possibly. Good luck.
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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:52 am

spudmunkey wrote:I once had a guitar that had a nut slot cut juuust a little too deep, and it was hitting the first fret with heavy play. i folded over a tiny piece of paper under the string and it was enough to "fix"the issue on that guitar. I'm not saying that should be the "fix", but it could maybe help diagnose the issue. If the string is ever-so-slightly raised, does the issue go away?


dbone wrote:Is your weather humidity temp the same as escondido?
if not this sounds like the type of problem that could go away if conditions were different than yours.
it could be a slightly high fret or possibly at neck adjustment by you at home using a playing card and Kiesels instructions for making adjustments at home.
I concur with the others who feel like it’s possibly a harmonic over tone from a low string just barely touching possibly. Good luck.


If I remember correctly.. The cut on the nut was a little bit high for the low E and the A string. And my guitar tech did a complete setup of the guitar before I sent it back for the second time. The guitar is at Kiesel since Jully, I can't remember how well the nut was.

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby Quivering Wrist » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:34 am

That sound is coming from the tuning peg on those strings to the nut. Put a rag on them strings at the head stock and it will stop.

There are things you can put there that don't look as bad as a piece of cloth stuffed in there. KIESEL GUITARS FRET WRAPS put behind the nut or at least touching the strings behind the nut will dampen that vibration. You can get creative.

This doesn't happen on all guitars but some it does. I wouldn't say its a defect but there are guitars it don't happen with. But with a little thinking you get can rid of it.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:46 pm

Quivering Wrist wrote:That sound is coming from the tuning peg on those strings to the nut. Put a rag on them strings at the head stock and it will stop.

There are things you can put there that don't look as bad as a piece of cloth stuffed in there. KIESEL GUITARS FRET WRAPS put behind the nut or at least touching the strings behind the nut will dampen that vibration. You can get creative.

This doesn't happen on all guitars but some it does. I wouldn't say its a defect but there are guitars it don't happen with. But with a little thinking you get can rid of it.


Hi! Thanks for your reply, unfortunately, I tried all that and the sound is still there :(

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby HarlowTheFish » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:12 pm

Yeah sympathetic ringing would be apparent when you stopped playing, not so much while you were playing. Honestly if it's not something to do with a low nut or a high fret somewhere I'm kinda stumped.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby Quivering Wrist » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:54 pm

jeb wrote:
Quivering Wrist wrote:That sound is coming from the tuning peg on those strings to the nut. Put a rag on them strings at the head stock and it will stop.

There are things you can put there that don't look as bad as a piece of cloth stuffed in there. KIESEL GUITARS FRET WRAPS put behind the nut or at least touching the strings behind the nut will dampen that vibration. You can get creative.

This doesn't happen on all guitars but some it does. I wouldn't say its a defect but there are guitars it don't happen with. But with a little thinking you get can rid of it.


Hi! Thanks for your reply, unfortunately, I tried all that and the sound is still there :(

Jeb


Well I still think its what I said. Wrap it tighter. You don't have a whammy bar with springs right? So there is no other place the vibration could be making noise.

Have someone hold the strings past the nut firmly.

I had my share of Carvins and one Kiesel. My alder body Carvin with maple neck x 2(i had 2 guitars in this config) rang after the nut. My Kiesel mahogany neck and body did not ring past the nut.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby HarlowTheFish » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:09 pm

Quivering Wrist wrote:Well I still think its what I said. Wrap it tighter. You don't have a whammy bar with springs right? So there is no other place the vibration could be making noise.

Have someone hold the strings past the nut firmly.

I had my share of Carvins and one Kiesel. My alder body Carvin with maple neck x 2(i had 2 guitars in this config) rang after the nut. My Kiesel mahogany neck and body did not ring past the nut.

Wrapping tighter does nothing but mess with pitch and tuning stability. Sympathetic ringing doesn't sound like what OP's getting, and it's not this pronounced when you're still playing. This sounds like the strings are being dampened somewhere along the fretboard and getting harmonics instead of sounding the proper open note.

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby jeb » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:59 am

Yeah... I have the ring after nut situation on my TL60 (hardtail with the inline reverse headstock), I just had to put a really small piece of foam under the strings right after the nut to get rid of it.

I'm dealing with a complete different situation with the Aries.

Jeb

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Re: Aries problem, high pitch/hollow sound on theLow E and A strings

Postby UnexplodedCow » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:02 pm

Sounds like a false harmonic.

The Lithium pickup is very good at bringing out false harmonics, especially the bridge model. But it otherwise sounds like muting going on from the picking hand, or possibly from the fretting hand if it's resting a little too closely, waiting for the chord change.

I know you said this was given a setup, but did your tech ever give a spec to exactly what amount of relief they adjusted in? Did they check for level frets or any small amount of raised fretboard? What about checking for string binding in the nut? What spec of string height, and was the nut check as well for string height?
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