CT6 dull sounding G sting

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CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:32 am

I picked up a second CT-6 recently in a trade, and discovered a few surprises. Let me preface by saying I have another CT-6 that is a gorgeous, great sounding instrument. When I played the new one, I noticed immediately that the G string was dead/dull sounding. I assumed the strings were old or something was dirty, so I unstrung the guitar, fastidiously cleaned and inspected the bridge/nut slots. New strings on... still dull sounding G string only. Open or fretted, though more noticeable open. I am leaning toward the bridge being the culprit because of this but am certainly open to suggestion. My other CT-6 does not sound this way.

Then I plugged it in and got a horrendous buzz. No effect when touching the strings, but became quiet when touching the volume knobs or pickup adjustment screws. Got to be a bad solder joint or wire coming from the bridge (it's the stop-tail version), says me. I open it up, and can't find the bridge ground in the control cavity. Thinking it might have been soldered in the pickup cavity, I look there too... nothing. Comparing it to my other CT-6, there is no hole where the wire should be coming through. I probe the shielding tape for a bit and see the outline of what looks like a hole underneath the shielding tape where the wire should come in. Poke, and there is a hole there, but no wire. I take off the bridge and pull the stud grommet from the body, and nothing. A hole from grommet hole to control cavity, but no wire had ever been there. It was just never installed, at all. I'm not sure how that ever got through QC! I installed a ground wire, soldered it to the shield tape and voila! no hum. Weird, but true.

So, sorry for the long first post. I am new to the forum but bought my first Carvin equipment 40 years ago and have owned quite a bit of it over the years. Currently, I own two CT6s and a DC-200 bought new in 2002. I hope to address that dead string issue and get the new one on stage soon!

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ZooHead
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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby ZooHead » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:34 pm

Strange to get the dull sound on an open string. For me it's was the D string at the 12 fret,
but not the adjacent strings at the twelfth fret. Caused by a high fret or two.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:21 pm

The only "dull" strings I've encountered were on two different guitars, and seeming caused by some sort of issue with the nut, and the bridge saddle. Both were fixed by a local shop, and I didn't bother to ask what they did.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Thanks for the reply. I’ve worked to make sure the black finish and everything between string and metal in the bridge is clean and it sounds better. I might swap the bridge just to see if it livens up a bit more. I’ve read about this, but never actually experienced it... all my Carvins have been clean playing instruments. I’ll figure it out.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby adamag98 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:12 am

It seems like any guitar I've ever owned ends up with a dull/tinny sounding B, acoustics being more noticeable.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby Nombrecomun » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 am

I'm glad you posted this. I'm experiencing something similar with the low B string on my Vm7. It's as if that low string quit overnight. The rest of the strings still sound quite alive and bright(original Elixirs from when I received the guitar in November).

But that 7th string sounds so dead in comparison. It might just be age but it's odd that this one string is so opaque.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:58 am

Thanks for the reply. In my case, even brand new Elixers sounded the same. 5 live strings, and one that sounds as if a damper is resting against it. Really odd. It’s not unusable, but is noticeably less responsive than the surrounding strings.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby GuitFiddle » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:14 pm

Let us know what happens with the G string issue, that's a strange one. Normally you'd find it in one or maybe two positions only, usually because the sympathetic resonance at those frequencies happens to be strong enough to dumb down the vibration of the string. But along the whole string is strange. I'm curious to see what you find.
American guitars
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What more do you need?

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:15 pm

Have you noodled with the pickup pole piece height? Too high, and the magnetic pull can deaden the vibrations of a string, and too low can make the string have lower output as well.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:55 pm

spudmunkey wrote:Have you noodled with the pickup pole piece height? Too high, and the magnetic pull can deaden the vibrations of a string, and too low can make the string have lower output as well.
Yes, it had actually been raised, which I think might have been to compensate for it not ringing out (bad idea). I set it all back like a stock pickup, but really had no effect.

As odd as it sounds, I am thinking it may be the individual bridge piece, right at the slot. When I move the string out of the slot and just rest it on the uncut section it sounds fine. You can't buy the individual piece, that I know of, but you can buy the bridge. Unfortunately shipping nearly doubles the price. I've cleaned and adjusted everything so there's nothing left. It's better, bit still noticeable, especially guitar to guitar. I think it's just one of those odd "this one piece just isn't right" mass manufacturing things that Gotoh didn't (maybe more fairly, couldn't) pick up during manufacture. I'm sure they don't test each one!

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:43 pm

I don't *believe* Gotoh makes the bridges (I could be wrong).

Either way, I think it's worth reaching out to Kiesel to see if maybe they could ship you one.

In the meantime, have you tried flipping your saddle around the other direction (assuming you'll still be able to intonate if you do)?

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Naked Ape
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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby Naked Ape » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:05 pm

Is the G saddle slot filed or worn deeper than the other saddles?
If so, there is a good chance the saddles are a mild steel that is 'Case Hardened', which is just the outer shell. Once through that layer, the steel can be significantly softer, which could have the effect you are experiencing. Any pics of Bridge/Saddles?
Screen Shot 2018-06-15 at 3.58.34 PM.png
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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:03 pm

spudmunkey wrote:I don't *believe* Gotoh makes the bridges (I could be wrong).

Either way, I think it's worth reaching out to Kiesel to see if maybe they could ship you one.

In the meantime, have you tried flipping your saddle around the other direction (assuming you'll still be able to intonate if you do)?

The bridge actually says Gotoh on the underside. I also did not know it was a Gotoh bridge until then. No issue though, I’ve got Gotoh parts on my Taylor 914CE, which is a premium acoustic, so I’m sure it’s decent quality.

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Re: CT6 dull sounding G sting

Postby CT6 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:06 pm

Naked Ape wrote:Is the G saddle slot filed or worn deeper than the other saddles?
If so, there is a good chance the saddles are a mild steel that is 'Case Hardened', which is just the outer shell. Once through that layer, the steel can be significantly softer, which could have the effect you are experiencing. Any pics of Bridge/Saddles?
Screen Shot 2018-06-15 at 3.58.34 PM.png

It was the same black coated slot depth as the rest, and appeared as stock. Interesting point, though. I wasn’t aware the process was a surface-only thing!


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