Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Doctor Turn » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:42 am

I wonder how thick the blanks are that they're talking about... are these "topless" CT3's that are going away the same thickness as a full, maple-topped carved top?

That's a little weird, honestly. That's quite a huge chunk of wood. Like, even a Les Paul Special (or like the old CM140's/DC150's like my old "K") are body width of a Les Paul.. like, the body wood underneath without the maple top. Throw the top on and it becomes a heavier, thicker guitar.

Aside from the growl of the P90's, the sullen pared down look and the hipness of the model--just in plain terms of the aspects of the build and how that translates versus a maple (or "other") topped guitar, that lighter, untopped aspect of breathable mahogany (or koa as the case may be, I own both examples and they both are acoustically very loud and snappy vs heavy, topped guitars) gives Les Paul Specials a unique quality all their own.

Bringing the body thickness all the way out to a topped "full PRS/LP" width, and not a "flat" top.. wonder what qualities this imparts to the guitar.

They should replace the CT3 with a "Special," ie a flat-top version, ie a true DC Special style axe. That would be a fabulous axe to build out of good honduran mahog or plain koa. If it doesn't already exist that is. Maybe even build some flat pickguards into them.

Charge $825 for the base mahog version, get a nice Schaller adjustable wraparound and I bet they start flying out w Beryls and 22's on them.
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby dbone » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am

spudmunkey wrote:I suppose it's no surprise, then, with the CT7 gone, that so is the SH7.


This is natural selection at work, it would have been nice to have seen a 22 fret SH6. I think that would be pushing the SH6 sales better than anything.
Reguardless I don’t think we will see any products hanging around for long if they are not moving units.
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:08 am

dbone wrote:Reguardless I don’t think we will see any products hanging around for long if they are not moving units.


It's not without precedent. The BC130 lasted one year because nobody bought it, and that was almost 30 years ago.

Hopefully they don't end up like Ford (cutting all cars out of their lineup, to only make trucks and SUVs and the mustang). While maybe those are the only models that bring in enough money, I think you run the risk of losing mind-share since you're no longer a one-stop-shop, but are instead a "Come to us if you want these 3 specific things" shop...which maybe is actually their desire, instead of trying to be all things to all people.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:05 pm

wickid wrote:
bonga_rascal wrote:This is odd. I recently read on a Facebook post that the reason they can do a CT3 is that they get mahogany thick enough to use on carve top guitars. I honestly don't understand the rationale behind discontinuing the CT3 series of guitars, especially when they still sell the CS3 series of guitars.

[color=#4000BF]
Maybe that's the issue. Lately its all about the figured top bling, and demand is too low for the thick mahog blanks, so they don't want to stock them? (But yeah, the CS3 doesn't make sense out of it. I hope for the best for the CS3 fans.)


To break this down a little more, CS3 and CT3 can mean two things: plain wood tops *or* solid mahogany with no top.

On today's live video, he mentioned that the CS3 with plain maple tops is still safe for now because they sell a good amount. They sold minimal CT3 models in comparison...even in their busiest year ever this year, I believe he said they sold some of the lowest #s of CT3s (I might have misheard, as I was driving while listening to it and didn't rewind it).

It seems like maybe the un-topped CT3 didn't earn it's spot to stay on as it's own stand-alone model, which would have been confusing, I suppose, with a CS3 model that CAN come with plain wood tops.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 pm

Also added to the list:

Rosewood backplates and TRC, and white limba tops.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Jackson928 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:18 pm

Man, I am pretty bummed, I was working with their "sale" on a CT3 build. I had it pretty finalized and my wife went into labor and we had major complications. Just started to look at finalizing the order and now I hear this.

I really wish someone emailed me or told me that I had a deadline to place the order or something. This would have been my 5th guitar in about 1.5 years.

felling bummed.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:32 pm

Jackson928 wrote:Man, I am pretty bummed, I was working with their "sale" on a CT3 build. I had it pretty finalized and my wife went into labor and we had major complications. Just started to look at finalizing the order and now I hear this.

I really wish someone emailed me or told me that I had a deadline to place the order or something. This would have been my 5th guitar in about 1.5 years.

felling bummed.


If you're able to pull together the scratch now, it might be worth a call. On today's video, Jeff said that when he discontinues something, you can usually take it as "last call". Some things they won't do, but most they seem to be able/willing to do for a very very short window after it's been discontinued, unless they just don't have any more parts for it.

I imagine they don't announced them very often because then people might order one quick as an impulse buy knowing it's their last chance, and then maybe try to return it after it is discontinued, 3 months later when they decide they don't really want it during their 10-day trial, and then they are stuck with stock of a discontinued model. by discontinuing and then still allowing orders without the 10-day, they will still build it for those that really want it, but then you have to accept that it's yours even if you end up not liking the specific piece of wood, or the fretboard radius you picked, or neck finish, etc.

I *suspect* that they might still be able to do it...but no promises! it's worth a call!

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Jackson928 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:37 pm

Yeah, I sent an email, I was torn between all tung oil body and satin with blackburst so was going to think about it a few days. Then my wife had to get induced for labor because of blood pressure and I just have gotten settled at home the last couple days. I really hope I can get it.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby ioneater » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 am

Jackson928 wrote:Yeah, I sent an email, I was torn between all tung oil body and satin with blackburst so was going to think about it a few days. Then my wife had to get induced for labor because of blood pressure and I just have gotten settled at home the last couple days. I really hope I can get it.


If at all possible, I recommend calling them instead of waiting for a reply to an email which can take days if you're lucky. A CT3 is worth it!!! :D
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Jackson928 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:07 pm

Thanks, they are going to do it :D . That is a nice looking ct3. Raw tone thin satin finish? I have struggled with all tung oil or tung oil neck and satin body (because I want blackburst edges on natural Hog)

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby ioneater » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 pm

Good deal! They are an excellent all around guitar. Comfy to play, not too heavy and a little more tonal variety than the 24 fret with the pickups being spaced farther apart. Mine's Ash and I've had a hog 324 as well. Hog is nice, too. Wish I hadn't sold it. Tunged necks are my fave with satin a close second. Glad they are going to hook you up on an order :applause:

I'm really surprised about the low sales numbers on the CT3. The X going away again was not a shocker as it's mostly a niche guitar cosmetically. I like splitting the bridge and playing some twangy country riffs with it every once in a while just to mess with people. Johnny Cash with an X220! :stir:

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Bovine » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 am

The discontinuations of the last few months seem to be going beyond just the surface of "nobody orders them" anymore. While I do understand that and totally get it, it seems like there is a larger goal taking place as well. It seems like there is a definite direction they are wanting to go (a steep reduction in Floyds, for example) and are pulling the trigger toward that goal at the first whisper of a chance. We've seen the Floyd Rose offerings go from "Not on a Vanquish", to "Not on a 7 of any kind", to "Not on a Solo either now". And the reason given is "They aren't selling on those models", which does make sense. Being a Floyd guy myself, this is hard news to take. But I get it ---- times change and I can't expect Kiesel to keep stocking chrome, black, & gold Floyds for the one or two guys that will actually order them this year. As some of us have already said, a longer deadline with no 10 day return on it would be so helpful toward meeting the company's needs and the customer's needs half way. What I do wish Kiesel understood is, that as GREAT as their prices are, most of us still can't just shell out $2500 on a one week or one month Last Call. We have to save up (and probably already were). We aren't trying to NOT buy guitars, it's just the whole "big ships make slow turns" thing playing out. So what I wish is that when discontinuations become necessary, that Kiesel would say "Deadline for orders on this will be Dec 31 ---- no 10 day returns will be included on any orders between now and then". Maybe a few months notice isn't worth it to their cost, and I could understand that as well. But SOME kind of printed notice other than a passing comment in the live feed would help so much. That way everyone has a fair chance to get what they want and all the stakeholders win.
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby wickid » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:47 am

Bovine wrote:... that as GREAT as their prices are, most of us still can't just shell out $2500 on a one week or one month Last Call. We have to save up (and probably already were). We aren't trying to NOT buy guitars ....


Agreed on the price point shifting.
Previously for me it was more like ... maybe I'd like to treat myself to another CT this year - and I was looking at around $1500 for a solid color, or splurge for a $1800-$2k figured top stained CT6. Sometimes even just to try out new p/ups (or other options) in a chassis I'm familiar with.
Now, it hits the bank deeper. meh. :|

I do and don't get the "it hasn't been selling well" take. So what. Its a CNC program, keep it around. :?
(Also what happens when guitarists tire of these current designs?? :think: )

But it looks like they are heading into more of a "THATS a Kiesel" direction, with more iconic designs and home cookin in the stew, and dropping the more classic designs.
:idea: Maybe they'll make a 22 fret Crescent version, and I'll be appeased. :think:
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:31 pm

wickid wrote:
I do and don't get the "it hasn't been selling well" take. So what. Its a CNC program, keep it around. :?
(Also what happens when guitarists tire of these current designs?? :think: )



For what its worth, Jeff spoke about programs in one of the last videos. They currently have around 7000 programs. I don't remember exactly, but i seem to remember him saying the Aries guitar alone had something like 80-100 programs just in its own. I don't know what their workflow is like, our how this effects them, however.

He also mentioned another stat: year to date, just up to July, they have almost passed the highest yearly total builds when they were "Carvin".

I think the new reality is if they want to keep low leadtimes (people complain they are too long now), prices low (people complain they are too high now), they have to be streamlined more than ever too keep quality high without letting those other two aspects increase even more.
Last edited by spudmunkey on Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:32 pm

Oh, and also...all three trans pearl colors are gone. (Blue, pink, and green)

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby wickid » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 am

spudmunkey wrote:.... I don't know what their workflow is like, our hippie this effects then, however.
....


um, I think your voice to text got that wrong. :lol:
Not for nuthin, but I really hate your voice to text sometimes. :wink:
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby spudmunkey » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:10 am

wickid wrote:
spudmunkey wrote:.... I don't know what their workflow is like, our hippie this effects then, however.
....


um, I think your voice to text got that wrong. :lol:
Not for nuthin, but I really hate your voice to text sometimes. :wink:


ha! Actually, I've been trying to use that less, and I used my "swipe" keyboard on that one and even proofread it. :wall: :laughhard:

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Jackson928 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:52 am

But SOME kind of printed notice other than a passing comment in the live feed would help so much. That way everyone has a fair chance to get what they want and all the stakeholders win

I agree, I was working on my order for a month, then my wife had a blood pressure scare and her pregnancy was induced and had major complications. My guitar took second fiddle(no pun). We were just getting settled back in when I decided to check his video and accidentally heard the line was canceled.

I got in touch asap and was was just barley able to get the order in. Something like a notice in a newsletter and a bold statement on the website product page seems fair. I would have been very upset if I missed out on my order, mainly because I have bought 4 in a row in a bit over a year paid in full and really wanted a entire Hog body 25" scale LP type guitar.

I am sad about this being dropped though, it was a less expensive option for not wanting a flamed top or painted guitar. Who is going to pay the extra $450 to paint a flamed maple top? And some guys just want 1 piece solid wood.

P.S can someone teach me how to quote text?

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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby wickid » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 am

Jackson928 wrote:...
I am sad about this being dropped though, it was a less expensive option for not wanting a flamed top or painted guitar. Who is going to pay the extra $450 to paint a flamed maple top? And some guys just want 1 piece solid wood.

P.S can someone teach me how to quote text?


right on.
(I guess the CS3 does have a few extra options, like the 2v2t, so maybe why that's sticking a while longer??)

And, you go to the post you want to quote, and there is a quote button in the upper right corner. boom.
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Re: Updates to the CT line: No more "3" model, and no more CT7.

Postby Jackson928 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am

Off Topic
And, you go to the post you want to quote, and there is a quote button in the upper right corner. boom.


This one that says "off topic"? I always avoid it because it seems not correct.

Thanks!


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