Limba Weights and Wood Combo

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Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby Sentinel » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:13 am

I'm seeing conflicting reports on which is on average light between white and black limba. Anyone have any verification one way or the other on that? The Kiesel site says that both colors are "a medium-light weight wood".

Also does a limba body with a maple top and a maple neck with rosewood fingerboard seem like a good tone woods combo?

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby HarlowTheFish » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:09 am

I'd say expect limba to be a little lighter than mahogany, but not as much as say alder. As far as wood combos go, if you mean tonally, then limba is similar to mahogany, but maybe a little brighter, so it should sound good. Visually, I'd say no top if black limba, and maybe maple with white limba.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby spudmunkey » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:44 am

And many of the Q&A videos with Jeff, he is said that white Limba is more like mahogany and weight and tone, while black Limba is more like Walnut and weight and tone.

As far as this FedEx, I would actually go the opposite of Harlow... I feel like Maple tops look slightly better on black Limba than they do on white Limba... but in general, I'm personally not a fan of the limba/maple combo, looks wise. Knows they are colored.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby Doctor Doug » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:21 am

I've got a Black Limba CS6 with a maple top. It's heavier than my mahogany one.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby Sentinel » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:20 pm

Thanks for sharing the info and experiences. I definitely want to go with a quilted maple top with a deep trans finish. I'd like the look of the black limba on the back and sides, but if its significantly heavier than the white, that's a concern. But would all this weight concern be moot if I simply request a lighter piece of black limba be chosen for me? Maybe that's the answer.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby dbone » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:58 pm

Chambered is a option on guitars with tops...
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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby Sentinel » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:03 pm

dbone wrote:Chambered is a option on guitars with tops...

I don't like the tone/attack characteristics of a chambered guitar.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby HarlowTheFish » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:52 pm

Sentinel wrote:
dbone wrote:Chambered is a option on guitars with tops...

I don't like the tone/attack characteristics of a chambered guitar.

As someone with a chambered Kiesel, the chambering they do has a bit of difference acoustically, but nothing I can hear through an amp. It's mostly just weight relief.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby Sentinel » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:04 pm

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Sentinel wrote:
dbone wrote:Chambered is a option on guitars with tops...

I don't like the tone/attack characteristics of a chambered guitar.

As someone with a chambered Kiesel, the chambering they do has a bit of difference acoustically, but nothing I can hear through an amp. It's mostly just weight relief.

OK, thanks for sharing that, much appreciated.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby HarlowTheFish » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:44 am

Sentinel wrote:
HarlowTheFish wrote:
Sentinel wrote:
dbone wrote:Chambered is a option on guitars with tops...

I don't like the tone/attack characteristics of a chambered guitar.

As someone with a chambered Kiesel, the chambering they do has a bit of difference acoustically, but nothing I can hear through an amp. It's mostly just weight relief.

OK, thanks for sharing that, much appreciated.

It's similar to the chambering on the JPX, but less. All on the bass side, about the size of a medium/small hand, and I'm pretty sure it's multiple small chambers, not one big one. Makes chords played lightly resonate a bit better imo, especially clean, but won't mess with harder playing.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:17 am

LesPauls have also been chambered to help with weight relief. I don't know anyone who said they noticed a change in tone, though the tonewood debate will forever rage on, like flat-earth arguments.

Black limba (to answer your question) typically has more mineral content, which is why it has darker colors, and typically more weight. Limba can swing from mild to wild in terms of weight. Swamp ash (southern soft, technically) would fall into a similar situation, and I've personally had both very light, and extremely heavy ash-bodied Carvins. The denser the wood, usually the better the sustain. Aside from that, however I'm not a believer in tonewoods as far as solidbody electrics go, so I say go with what you like, and maybe ask for a light piece of Limba...you might pay a little more for the hand-picking, but if you want a light piece, or specific coloring/figuring, it's worth the extra cost.
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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby X1Glider » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:54 pm

UnexplodedCow wrote:LesPauls have also been chambered to help with weight relief. I don't know anyone who said they noticed a change in tone, though the tonewood debate will forever rage on, like flat-earth arguments.

Black limba (to answer your question) typically has more mineral content, which is why it has darker colors, and typically more weight. Limba can swing from mild to wild in terms of weight. Swamp ash (southern soft, technically) would fall into a similar situation, and I've personally had both very light, and extremely heavy ash-bodied Carvins. The denser the wood, usually the better the sustain. Aside from that, however I'm not a believer in tonewoods as far as solidbody electrics go, so I say go with what you like, and maybe ask for a light piece of Limba...you might pay a little more for the hand-picking, but if you want a light piece, or specific coloring/figuring, it's worth the extra cost.

The chambering itself doesn't change the tone. What does change is the attack and decay. Less bite and the decay takes longer because of the resonance added by the chambering. This can make the notes less defined because the waves are no longer as focused as a solid body. So, this can actually give the guitar a more "classic rock" tone similar to using an old Alnico 2 pickup with a low output like was prevalent around 1970. Those pickups are known for warmth and loose highs and mids, not articulation like a modern high output pickup. That's my analogy to chambering a guitar, to try and make a point.

I also agree with your assessment of not caring about tonewoods anymore in solid body guitars for the most part. Obviously a full maple guitar will sound thin and harsh and a basswood body will sound soft but fuller and also quieter... you can tell those by ear because those are pretty extreme examples. Most any other wood will have little effect on how the strings vibrate , especially if they are fast notes because the strings don't get a chance to settle into their true vibration like long notes. (Anyone that doesn't believe this should think about using an electronic tuner. The notes are always sharp upon picking. You have to let the string settle so the actual note can be accurately assessed.) It takes playing notes and chords for more than a quarter beat for the string to settle into it's actual pitch and vibrates properly. Then you can hear the true tone.

That aside, the pickup choice will have more of an effect on tone. An there's a thousand or more out there to choose from. So, I say pick whatever wood you like the look of and then get a pickup that will give you the tone you are looking for and works with the choice of amp and speaker cab. All those "which pickup is best" posts is useless. Depends on everything in the signal chain. Trying to pick wood to determine your final tone just doesn't work well in a solid body electric. It's the strings' vibration that needs to be worried about that effect the magnetic field. Depending on note length, there just isn't much of an effect to be concerned about.

And pretty much all pickups are potted real well these days. They really aren't microphonic enough to pickup any useful acoustic resonance and amplify it. You can get unpotted from the custom shops from SD, Dimarzio, etc, and those will make a difference in your tonewood choice because they will pickup up everything acoustic, including your forearm rubbing on the front of the body.

I have a S.D. pickup without potting for recording and home use only. It is a classic sounding low power pickup and sounds beautiful in my semi-hollow guitar made of mahogany with rosewood fretboard and maple arch top. But it is only good at bedroom levels and isolated recording because it will feedback easily, very easily, even with a 5 watt amp. I always use the 1 watt or less setting and the guitar lives at home. Completely useless on any stage, even in a coffee house.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby UnexplodedCow » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 am

I've had very different experiences. While I'm not going to venture on a diatribe of my hearing prowess, I will say that I can usually notice subtle differences in most sounds.

With that said, when I debuted the lizardburst V6 back in 2015, it could not have had a more different wood choice than my personal V6 that was ordered the same day. That I was able to play through the same model of amp, with a very similar speaker cabinet, adjusted in the way I like, was helpful with me figuring out how I expected the guitar to sound with the then-new Lithium pickups.

The show-room V6 was the same scale, but different fretboard, one piece maple neck, chambered ash body if I'm not mistaken, with a quilted maple top, different frets, too.

My V6 is a 5 piece maple/mahogany thing, with solid mahogany body wings, ebony fretboard, and jumbo stainless frets. What it had in common was the 25.5" scale length, and the Lithium pickups. When it arrived, I plugged into my amp (then a V3m, which I tried in the showroom), and it sounded exactly as I remembered the showroom model sounding, and how I expected. No change in attack or response that I could detect.

True, this was 10 weeks apart, and memories can change, but (again, my experience) I hear more from changing saddle material/shape, or bridge/vibrato units than wood changes. I've done tons of swapping of electronics between different guitars, and it always sounds the same. The biggest change comes from when the electronics change for me, of course this can be affected by temp.

Maybe I don't have golden ears...or whatever they're called, but that Vader experience was the final nail in the coffin of any tonewood belief I previously held for solid-body electrics. The thing I won't debate would be sustain, and that seems more due to density and mechanical stiffness of the material. That most certainly changes, and perhaps the use of mahogany vs. a chambered ash/maple body wound up with the same overall density, negating much of a difference.

*shrug* these days I just try to play more than debate with myself the merits of one wood over another. That is something I wasted time in my youth for. Didn't net me anything (good tone, but questionable playing prowess).
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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby X1Glider » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:10 pm

UnexplodedCow wrote:I've had very different experiences.

Actually sounds like you had the same exact experience.

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Re: Limba Weights and Wood Combo

Postby UnexplodedCow » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:40 am

I don't think chambering does much of anything at all. It *could* come down to overall density, but without weighing every piece of wood, it's only a notion. That's where we differ for sure. My experience makes me doubt tonewood in all but the sustain part. Still, good-looking wood that's stable is never a bad thing. A good looking guitar is more likely to have me play it more often.
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