Big issues with VB6

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Demotico
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Big issues with VB6

Postby Demotico » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:51 am

I have a nig problem with my 6-string bass Vader and his headstock. After asking for technical help (useless) and take it to a luthier on my own, I still finding completely impossible to change the string B. It simply does not fit. It is assumed that the bass came with a caliber 130 in that string, but the fact is that I do not even manage with a 120 and the only advice given to us in Kiesel is trying to crush the string e with a hammer... A bass of $1600 that I can no longer use and I don’t now if it is because it is poorly designed or poorly manufactured (in my case). Anyway Kiesel offers no solution.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby gumbynotpokey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:40 pm

What technical assistance did Kiesel provide you? What did they say?
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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby Demotico » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:52 am

They recommended me to use a 120 string or try to flatten it with a hammer. I explained them that with a string of 120 I couldn’t and they did not answer me again. But it’s the same thing they said to my luthier, who called them on his own.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby HarlowTheFish » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:51 am

One thing you can do is measure out the string and unwrap the outermost winding down to just below the headpiece. I do this with guitar strings sometimes when they won't go through the tuners.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby spudmunkey » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:52 am

Are there tapered string options available that would work in this scenario?

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby SilkyHotLicks » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:03 am

Demotico wrote:I have a nig problem with my 6-string bass Vader and his headstock. After asking for technical help (useless) and take it to a luthier on my own, I still finding completely impossible to change the string B. It simply does not fit. It is assumed that the bass came with a caliber 130 in that string, but the fact is that I do not even manage with a 120 and the only advice given to us in Kiesel is trying to crush the string e with a hammer... A bass of $1600 that I can no longer use and I don’t now if it is because it is poorly designed or poorly manufactured (in my case). Anyway Kiesel offers no solution.

Hmm, I bought this recently. It's a short scale VB6 using the standard 25-125 flatwound strings and tuned up a 4th to E1 standard and I have not had any issues. But I have not tried to change the strings yet. Since I want to use superbrights on this guitar I will attempt to change my strings and I'll let you know if I have the same problem. But even if I do have the same problem I would not characterize this guitar as 'Poorly Designed', if anything I'd believe that it's QC issue.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby Demotico » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:57 am

It is a good instrument with a problem on a string that seems very minor but makes it useless. I’m sure that this isn’t common issue, but another client in this forum had a similar problem and commented that Kiesel sent him another headstock. They did not give me that option. I am a musician, not a luthier, but if a professional luthier can not fix it, it does not seem very simple.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby X1Glider » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:25 pm

Sounds unacceptable in a I.D.G.A.F. way for even suggesting using a .120. I have a Bunny Brunel 6 string that I use a .135 on so a .120 is completely unacceptable for my uses.

Did you completely remove the string's set screw to see if there is something blocking the way?

Perhaps the luthier you saw is not the answer, but instead, a machine shop.

The string passages for low B to D should be .172" wide if Kiesel is adhering to the same passage design as standard Hipshot headpieces, per Hipshot's CAD drawing. If they are not .172", the problem may be that the headpiece was machined improperly. But that depends on Kiesel's design criteria. Measure it with calipers. If Kiesel won't send a new headpiece free of charge, get it machined properly. If the passage needs to be widened, it may require also going up to the next size setscrew.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby spudmunkey » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:58 pm

X1Glider wrote:
The string passages for low B to D should be .172" wide if Kiesel is adhering to the same passage design as standard Hipshot headpieces, per Hipshot's CAD drawing. If they are not .172", the problem may be that the headpiece was machined improperly. But that depends on Kiesel's design criteria. Measure it with calipers. If Kiesel won't send a new headpiece free of charge, get it machined properly. If the passage needs to be widened, it may require also going up to the next size setscrew.


Do you have a link to an actual CAD file? (I hope that didn't come across as snarky...genuinely curious) I'm looking at their PDF, and it's pretty incomplete. They only call out a couple string slots, but not the lowest ones. Some are only .124" at what appears to be the narrowest point (.062" x 2, since it's center-to-edge, rather than edge-to-edge). If this part is consistent from string to string, it would make sense that .120" would be reported as the biggest, but how some people are getting .130" to work with some "help". And it would make sense that Kiesel's would be the same as this, if I'm reading the drawing right.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby Demotico » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:24 am

Thank you. I will ask them again to send me the headpiece. It seems inadmissible to me that a brand like Kiesel makes mistakes like that and neglects its customers in this way. If the bass has to go to the trash will go to the trash. I’m a musician, could not depend on the lottery for poor quality control. The fact is that in this moment I feel cheated.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby SilkyHotLicks » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:56 pm

Demotico wrote:Thank you. I will ask them again to send me the headpiece. It seems inadmissible to me that a brand like Kiesel makes mistakes like that and neglects its customers in this way. If the bass has to go to the trash will go to the trash. I’m a musician, could not depend on the lottery for poor quality control. The fact is that in this moment I feel cheated.

I just tried changing the B on my VB6 from a flatwound .125 to a stainless steel .130 and the .130 fits fine on my guitar. Mine is a 30" scale and I believe that the head piece is the same on both the 34" and 30" scale guitars.

I did have to slightly bend the new string into an elbow / L shape at the slot of the head piece so that it would fit into the slot better and I could then easily tighten it down with the setscrew. Also I can't tune it safely to E1 anymore, just to B1.

It's such a cool guitar, I'd press them again for a new head piece and let them know you're a new customer and that you're not happy.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby X1Glider » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:31 am

spudmunkey wrote:
X1Glider wrote:
The string passages for low B to D should be .172" wide if Kiesel is adhering to the same passage design as standard Hipshot headpieces, per Hipshot's CAD drawing. If they are not .172", the problem may be that the headpiece was machined improperly. But that depends on Kiesel's design criteria. Measure it with calipers. If Kiesel won't send a new headpiece free of charge, get it machined properly. If the passage needs to be widened, it may require also going up to the next size setscrew.


Do you have a link to an actual CAD file? (I hope that didn't come across as snarky...genuinely curious) I'm looking at their PDF, and it's pretty incomplete. They only call out a couple string slots, but not the lowest ones. Some are only .124" at what appears to be the narrowest point (.062" x 2, since it's center-to-edge, rather than edge-to-edge). If this part is consistent from string to string, it would make sense that .120" would be reported as the biggest, but how some people are getting .130" to work with some "help". And it would make sense that Kiesel's would be the same as this, if I'm reading the drawing right.

Image

I doubt they'd offer up a CAD file as that gives away their P.I. Here is the PDF for the 6 string: 6 String headpiece dimension

It shows the slot widths in this one. If Kiesel deviates from this, I don't know. Someone with a VB6 and calipers would have to pipe up.

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby X1Glider » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:35 am

[quote="SilkyHotLicks"]I did have to slightly bend the new string into an elbow / L shape at the slot of the head piece so that it would fit into the slot better and I could then easily tighten it down with the setscrew. Also I can't tune it safely to E1 anymore, just to B1./quote]
I'm not following you. And E1? B1? Huh? And Why?

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Re: Big issues with VB6

Postby SilkyHotLicks » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:18 pm

X1Glider wrote:
SilkyHotLicks wrote:I did have to slightly bend the new string into an elbow / L shape at the slot of the head piece so that it would fit into the slot better and I could then easily tighten it down with the setscrew. Also I can't tune it safely to E1 anymore, just to B1./quote]
I'm not following you. And E1? B1? Huh? And Why?

Firstly, I really hate using the terms 'low' or 'high' to describe which strings I'm referring too so I try to use the note naming conventions of a piano. But my bad, the notes I named were incorrect. And actually I'm kinda confused? My music theory book says that the correct designations should be B1/E2 but my tuner says B0/E1. So, lets try this.

1.) I bought the 30" scale VB6 specifically to tune it to the E, above the low B. I tune it like a standard E-E guitar. The bass dynamics are impressive and the results are amazing, at least to me.

2.) For some reason that I can't identify, after changing the strings from the flatwound .025 - .125 set to the super bright .030 - .130 set I can't tune the low B up to E any longer.

3.) The .130 low B string would not fit into the headpiece while simultaneously allowing me to place the setscrew back into its slot. I had to bend the string into a slight elbow shape for it to lay flatter in the slot.

Hope this explains what I was trying to say to the OP. Only #3 is applicable to the original issue.


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